Gumbo Roux
 

I did a search, and it seems most folks are talking about basic flour thickener roux. I am learning some other thickening methods for "simple thickening" but for a proper gumbo, you MUST have a browned roux...to the color of a penny.

Gumbo simply is not gumbo without dark roux...without it, it is simply soup or stew. We can call anything what we want, but a real Cajun would never call anything without that dark roux, gumbo. For good reason, it is the baseline flavor for it.

My guess is the majority of people simply dont make this kind of roux at home, its really time consuming and can be burnt, causing a complete start over if you mess it up, so it can be intimidating. I have become very proficient at making it from scratch in my "full carb" life, but alas...I am now LC for the foreseeable future.

I have some EX-Cajun transplant friends that I was shocked to find out they buy roux in a jar down in Louisiana! (Dark roux for gumbo). But my guess is, it is far from low carb.

Anything out there to make that leap in the low carb world?

I can make soup or stew from anything and love it, no problem. But this is one of those "it ain't this without that" situations.

I hit a black hole on this one it looks like.

I bought some coconut flour and plan to start playing with it after induction and beyond.

Anyone ever try to brown that stuff?

The way I like to make gumbo roux is to add equal parts oil and flour (like 1/4 cup each) in a small pot, then starting on med-high heat, whisk until it begins to darken, then turn to med and whisk constantly until it turns the color of a penny or basically "brown". If you dont want to stand there constantly you can turn heat to med low and whisk here and there for a longer time...like 45 minutes.

I know coconut flour will have a different taste, but does anyone know if it will behave similar to flour in this respect? Or should I not even try it because you know it will-be disastrous?

I'm just spit-balling here. I will likely be doing and sharing a lot of experiments if I stay here long

Well, I too know how to make the real deal but
unfortunately, I haven't made it since low carb.
I use to do turkey gravy the same way starting with turkey fat and flour...but
I don't eat that anymore either.

There is almond flour that might work but IDK?

If you find a way, let me know.

I sure will. I'm off induction technically tomorrow, so at some point I'm just going to try it and see what the coconut flour does. The nut flours may be better because that's kind of the flavor of roux...kind of nutty...hard to describe it otherwise...its just Gumbo flavor...and that's what gumbo tastes like. Without the dark Roux, like I said above, you just have a stew or soup.

Almond flour is outrageously expensive, even at Walmart but if I have to go that route I'll try it. I wish there were smaller packages of stuff to try. I may contact a manufacturer. I have had great luck doing that with all kinds of stuff, even gloves!... and have gotten free samples.

It will be still a while before I try it, that's why I thought I would ask the community to see if any had experience. It looks like I'm breaking new ground here...or failing at it...

I don't believe I have ever had gumbo, but I have made roux in the past, though perhaps not to the color degree needed in New Orleans. But your question intrigued me. I have found over the several years I've been low carbing that just about any cooking question I have had has been answered by somebody, somewhere. Not always in a way that I am comfortable with - sort of like you saying that gumbo isn't gumbo without the roux. A line in the sand as far as you are concerned, though not, apparently, for a number of other low carb cooks :-). Anyway, I googled "low carb gumbo roux", and found a number of different recipes. The one following uses a combination of coconut & almond flours. There were other ideas in other recipes. I hope that one might click with you, and look forward to hearing how you get on with the experiment.
https://paleocomfortfoods.com/in-th...en/paleo-gumbo/

Oh, about the almond flour ... yes, quite expensive. However you can freeze the remainder, and it will last a long time. Or, if you have the apparatus to vacuum seal things, you can seal it in a bag or jar - still might want to freeze or refrigerate though. When I started low carbing i went looking for baking recipes, and used a fair bit of almond and coconut flour. After several years I don't feel the need anymore, and a pound of almond flour lasts a long time. I think you said that the sweets aren't that big a draw for you; I am the same way, so my baking efforts are mostly experiments to try and convince DH that eating this way isn't total and complete deprivation. So far, it hasn't worked well :-)
Coconut flour isn't difficult to make yourself; let me know if you would like directions

Thanks Verbena! I did do some looking around online and missed that one. That's exactly the experience I was looking for, apparently people are doing it, but with a mix of coconut and almond flour.

And whether something is "this" without "that" is always up to the consumer. Some people say it's just not Christmas without snow or incessant Christmas music! Or a tree...

Whats funny is in the comments on that article/recipe, the debate about "what is gumbo" rages on...even back in 2011 on that page. I have seen Cajuns say in no way should gumbo ever have tomatoes in it...that would be "Creole"!

I have friends and business associates who are Louisiana transplants. Real Cajuns that can speak the language well...it is a different language down there! I can only go by them telling me "it aint gumbo wit no roux [SIC]". They also tell me file is optional! I'm glad, because I dont care for it. Some say its not gumbo without okra too.

So, as I said before, one can "call" a dish anything they want. "For me", no dark roux, no gumbo, its stew. Still remains to be seen if a roux made with anything but white flour tastes anything like a proper roux.

You can bet I'll report that back when I find out. I'm not quite ready to make it, but definitely before the end of winter, I still have half a bag of frozen okra from the batch I made just last month before I started this diet that I need to use up. That's the only time I ever eat okra, except deep fried.

On the storage...yes, I have a food saver. Been using it for years. I buy in bulk many things and use it for long term storage. And I do have the mason jar attachments. That's a great suggestion, thanks.

It is hard to convince someone not dedicated to losing weight to give up certain things. If your husband is not on board with it, I can see where he would NOT be happy. I used to say life is too short to live without yeast breads, but I also said I would not buy bigger pants, when the ones I have get too tight, I'll lose weight...dangit! Guess what...I bought bigger pants...and now I'm low carbing to fit back in the old ones! :eek:

The old saying, "never say never". :nono:

There is rich soup and there is a pot of boiled stuff.....

To get some really good flavor, first start with sautéing the veggies (celery, onion, garlic, carrots) in butter until they get a little soft. I then add the meat, make room for the meat to touch the pot bottom and sauté it on all sides. Add spices anytime within the sauté process. This develops flavor and then you can begin adding water or broth a little at a time, cook stir, scrape bottom, little more water, cook, little more water.

Thank you for the suggestions Meme. It's very nice of you to try to help.

Furst run
 

Update.

I finally tried to make the roux with coconut flour, and it worked...sort of.

I have pics but this site makes it too hard to post them nicely, so, flying blind here except links to the pics of others.

Coconut flour will remain stable while making a penny colored roux like this proper roux you find in this blog post:

http://www.foodlustpeoplelove.com/2...-make-roux.html

For those that have chimed in here and dont really know what I was referring to, THAT is real Gumbo roux. My chicken sausage gumbo last night looked very much like the picture at the bottom of that page, but I cut my chicken up smaller.

But, alas...this was still NOT proper gumbo I made with coconut flour. While the coconut flour does take on an almost chocolate sweet aroma when you "brown-roux" it like this, it simply DOES NOT have the flavor profile that IS Cajun cooking and a proper gumbo.

Don't get me wrong, my "almost gumbo" was delicious and hearty...we enjoyed it, but in the end, coconut flour is not the answer.

The flavor was not what it needed to be for my experiment and search to find a low carb roux fix to be considered finished, and I have also found that coconut flour remains very "granular" even when cooked. So the texture of the gumbo liquid had that almost "corn mealy" mouth feel...and thats NOT where I want to be in my quest.

I have also learned that coconut flour's granular nature remains no matter what the recipe. So far I have found it to be best in a breading/coating for baked food like chicken, where the coarseness of the flour is not a negative, and also I found a really good low carb wrap recipe that uses it along with almond milk...and of course, eggs.

On another note, I also got some xanthan gum, and carefully used a little bit in the gumbo. I think it did help make up for some of the loss of the thickening and mouth feel of a white flour roux. It's really not a bad substitute making Gumbo this way, but I will quest on to make it better somehow and will report back anything I discover. Next up....probably almond flour.

In the future, after I have lost my weight and in holding and maintaining mode, I may be able to use an all natural wheat flour, or even white flour to make my roux. It would be a splurge and not something I make all the time. when I break it down, white flour is around 23 grams net carbs per 1/4 cup. The way I make gumbo uses 1/4 cup flour. The batch makes at least 4 good sized servings (usually more), so at roughly 6 grams net carbs max per serving, real flour could be an acceptable splurge in a maintenance mode of 40-100 grams carbs daily. I'll probably stick with very minimally refined flours in the future though. That will be the end of the road for my experiments on this before succumbing to white flour even in a splurge, for now its other lower carb alternatives to experiment with.

Stay tuned.

Ken, I salute your dedication to the gumbo cause. By this time in your quest I would have thrown up my hands and decided that either "good enough is good enough", or "better another dish entirely than a mediocre substitute" LOL. I speak from total inexperience here, never having eaten, much less cooked, gumbo. You obviously like full flavored foods, and are not averse to time in the kitchen. Have you tried beef rendang? It's a beef stew from Indonesia that my DH and I are quite fond of. I leave out the sugar (couple of tablespoons) to no obvious detriment (maybe Indonesians wouldn't agree LOL). This recipe is very like the one I use: http://rasamalaysia.com/beef-rendan...ndang-daging/2/

Thanks Verbina,

Yes, I'm a bit hard-headed once I set my mind to something. One of the things going low carb has depressed me about is I spent the last several years really honing my cooking skills. Of course thats why my wife and I got so fat!

Fortunately as has been mentioned to me before, those skills can prove helpful in getting around the limitations of low carb cooking. My results have been mediocre to good. Unfortunately with certain foods, white flour and sugars are the key. I never did use a lot of sugar, but in some cases its what pushes a recipe to the perfect level. Same with bleached flour...yeast rolls, biscuits...I have always not preferred brown/whole grain flour products becasue they tend to sweeten bread. Same thing with brown rice and pastas. Just not the same. But going forward, if I do splurge on white flour pasta, I'll go back to making it myself which is a totally different level of pasta. I just love a good Naan bread dredged in really good olive oil or some fresh crusty artisanal bread torn in to pieces and straight in my face!

My wife will love that Beef Rendang! Shes loves the anise/licorice and cinnamon, etc. flavors. The challenge with that recipe is like cleaning out and restocking the pantry for low carb life, some of the ingredients are bit exotic for the average kitchen, but I've worked with them all. I threw out my block of tamarind paste after years. The Tamarind may be a bit high carb anyway and after working with it several times I didn't find what it added was worth the effort...some fresh lime and a pinch of brown sugar did the same thing very easily for my palette. I've also always thought keffir lime leaves were a little overrated. I've even had them snipped fresh for me by a wonderful old Thai lady who grows her own keffir lime tree right in her restaurant. When she found out I was learning Thai cooking, she snipped off some to take home, then walked me through her garden out back to snip some Thai basil and other herbs and dug up and sent me home with a few Thai hot pepper plants! I still have some of those Thai Hot Peppers in my freezer, I use them in jars of cucumber pickles for spice. They are almost too hot for anything else...and that's saying a lot because I like my food to make me sweat!

I have since resorted to using canned and jarred curry pastes. They are good and I simply have never matched their flavor. I know when I am beat, but I will always try first! Curry simply means sauce or gravy...I posted in another thread here about that. The Brits created curry powder and a lot of people think if it doesn't taste like that, its not curry. The Asian markets where stuff like boneless beef short ribs and affordable lemongrass are more available in my region of the U.S., sell a variety of curry pastes for different flavors. Its what I use for my Thai Red Curry which I have gotten near perfect held up against the authentic stuff in restaurants like the one that aforementioned Thai Lady (drawing a blank on her name at the moment) made for my wife and I. I'm sure they have something that will match up to the flavor profile of this Beef Rendang.

So here's a try suggested from Meme#1 at posting pics using Tinypic:

This was the roux



This is the finished gumbo. We had already taken out some nice bowlful's when it occurred to me to take the pic!



Like I had written before, it was really good, but not a direct replacement for white flour's flavor. I do plan to try almond flour. I'm just taking it step by step. Stocking a low carb kitchen can be expensive! But, if I find the right replacements for certain things, it will help to maintain weight once I hit my goal. I'll be less likely to go back and use those higher carb things if I accomplish a consistent good result with certain recipes.

Thanks to Meme#1 for the the suggestion of Tinypic. Others had suggested similar stuff and I just didn't want to go through the steps. This was not too hard...I just have to realize I'm dealing with an old site with limited storage. I have to be sure to reduce my pics for this method, the first attempt had the images huge! Great resolution but you had to use the browser slider bars to read and see everything.

Copied from my Erythritol thread becasue this pertains to coconut flour as well:

ALSO! I made some coconut flour muffins using Erythritol and they are not bad. A little dense, but it gives a bit of satisfaction if you haven't had a muffin in a while!

This recipe:
https://www.slenderkitchen.com/reci...coconut-muffins

Mine didn't have the crackly looking tops like this but they were attractive. I might do again. It was an experiment to use ingredients I have bought and already had on hand like the Erythritol, coconut flour and I've had coconut oil for some years now in the pantry. My wife has been buying almond milk since starting her diet, so I just happened to have that on hand as well.

Just a note: if you contribute and become a paying member at this site you get more available storage space for pics. Plus I love this place and think it’s a great site to support financially!

almond and coconut flours won't thicken like flour. They may end up being kind of gritty. There are lots of low carb alternatives to thickeners but nothing is exactly like flour. Some low carb flours have thickening properties, like Lupin flour and soy flour. I hate the taste of soy flour, but YMMV. Lupin flour tastes ok-ish to me.

I usually pour some of the soup (sans meat, if you can) into a blender and blend it until thick and smooth, then pour it back. That'll thicken things up.

Low carbing means changing life long habits like having perfectly authentic gumbo, or whatever. Just need to adjust to your new reality. I had to give up all wheat/barley/rye products when I was diagnosed with a gluten issue. It was tough at first, felt kind of sorry for myself, but I got used to it.

Merpig,

I have looked into contributing. Still on the fence and need to learn more.

Nancy LC,

I appreciate the feedback. I have been experimenting with Xanthan gum for thickening, so I expect to get that working well at some point. The Okra in gumbo provides a gelatinous thickening as well.

With making the roux, its really more about the flavor than thickening. This is why I think some folks are a little perplexed by my thread here. Most people think of roux for thickening and in most recipes thats exactly what its for in addition to flavor.

The longer a roux is cooked, like the dark roux used in Cajun cooking, it actually thickens less. The less flour roux is cooked, the more it thickens.

What I'm aiming for is the flavor. I'll be sure to report back on any success with almond flour. I would like to find a small package but that seems hard to come by.

Most people dont even make gumbo or the proper roux you need for it, so this thread is all about the experiment to me. I'm actually a little surprised at how many people have written things to me like you have, basically saying you just have to give stuff up and get used to it. I get that, but for me life is about challenging rather than giving up...I'm one of those guys that tries to fix everything around the house I can, even if I've never done it. I'm always pushing the limits and I'm pretty tenacious when I get my mind set on doing something.

I got real close with this first run. I'll bet I'll get even closer at some point. I saw a Bizarre foods with Andrew Zimmern the other day where he visited Cajun country and met an old woman with a generations old gumbo recipe. The recipe doesn't even use a roux, he said she slow roasts okra for three hours to give the gumbo that deep rich flavor. That's the kind of out of the box thinking I like. I'd be perfectly happy not using any roux if I can get that flavor.

So, I may try doing a "very roasted" pan of some vegetables like celery and a little onions and peppers to keep it carb light, then take that browned veg mix and blend it with some of the broth for the gumbo and see if it gives me the flavor profile.

A browning sauce may help, but does bring some carbs. Kitchen Bouquet may be worth a try. Walmart sells it for about $3. It costs about 3 grams carbs per teaspoon though...but if it only took a teaspoon for the flavor and color to get right, it would be considered low carb in the serving size.

I cook a lot of cajun food and have found that browning oat fiber in your oil makes a pretty decent roux. Thickens slightly and more importantly, gives you a browned flower taste to the gravy/recipe like a real roux. I order my oat fiber at Honeyvillegrains on-line.

Thanks Buttoni!

Should I buy oat fiber or oat flour?

Edit: I ordered both. I got a little too happy on the Netrition site!

They are NOT the same thing. Oat flour didn't work as well for me for this purpose. Get the oat fiber.

I think oat flour is just ground up oats?

Buttoni,

You have inspired me to buy more baking products. I ordered several things from Netrition last week. Some really great products and found the black soy beans they sell in the cans too...those will be a game changer. People say you cant tell they are not just black beans in a chili. I haven't had beans in three months! The carb number on those is outstanding.

I just made your fluffy cheddar biscuits today...another total life changer, they are delicious! Closet thing to a traditional baked good I've had since starting this diet. I am very excited to try more of the recipes.

I'm making your cheddar jalapeno bread to go along with corned beef and cabbage for dinner tonight. I'm could not be more exited to be eating bread tonight! I'm splurging for my birthday (yes, still making dinner though) by low carb baking! More carbs than usual for me, but still super low compared to regular bread products.

Folks should click on your link in your signature and go check out your web site if they haven't. It is now in my bookmarks.

I've made roux in the past using Carbalose flour, and in a pinch even Carbquik. They brown pretty quickly so you have to use a pretty low flame but they worked and I got the flavor I was wanting, which was for a gravy, not gumbo (which I've never made but would love to try!) - might be worth a look anyway, especially if you're on an ordering frenzy with Netrition at the moment! :lol:

For the black soy beans, 15 minutes in chicken broth(or beef- whatever liquid)in an instant pot makes them nice and soft like pinto or black beans :)

Thanks Dottie, I haven't tried them from dry yet. Everything I've found is mega-expensive but dont now how it relates to volume of cooked product in the end compared to canned.

On a good note, I just found Amazon has the same cans as Netrition for $2.17, 22¢ a can less and Prime free 2 day shipping! I was just waiting to build an order to meet the $99 free shipping on Netrition before buying more, and now I can have them by the end of the week for a good price!

I tried to make re-fried beans with them, it was good, but certainly not a direct replacement...still better than nothing! I'm going to ry to put them in the food processor. Hand mashing them left a lot of the skin intact and a not so smooth texture. Other non low carbers thought they were OK too.

I used them in my normal chili recipe, and only used half the tomatoes to cut those carbs and it came out fantastic. Remarkable actually.

I'll have to try that. I can report that the oat fiber did work pretty good.

Thanks!

Thank you! The oat fiber did work well. It's a little bit of skill required as a cook because the color starts out brown rather than white like wheat flour. So gauging when to stop "browning" the roux was dicey. It smelled a little weird too, but that went completely away after adding with all other ingredients.

My wife and two other people who are not low carbers loved the gumbo. I did too. It really did have that depth of flavor very near what flour gives.

To enhance the thickening, I used zanthan gum. I keep some in a fine holed shaker (like a salt shaker) and shake over/into soups, stews and sauces a little at a time. It gives a lot of control over the adding of the zanthan and eliminates any clumping.

A BONUS! I was also experimenting with different flours, etc I had bought while deep frying chicken wings (regular cornstarch coated for the non low carbers) and the oat fiber was a big winner in low carb coating! It really enhanced the chicken wings almost as good, and in some way better than cornstarch...and zero net carbs!

I'll be trying some other different deep fry's with that stuff, tis the season here in the Mid Atlantic for deep frying after all! I fry out in my garage with all the doors open, so I dont deep fry as much in the dead of winter or heat of summer because I also air condition my garage.

Yes, indeed, I do like to add a bit of oat fiber to my coatings and batters. It really imparts a true flour taste IMHO. a little in LC pie crusts works wonders, too.

Ken, oat fiber makes a pretty good roux. That's what I've been using for some time now. Occasionally, when I feel indulgent, I'll add 1 T. Einkorn flour to the oat fiber for an even deeper browned-flour taste. Then if further thickening is needed I dust a smidge of xanthan gum or glucomannan powder into the soup/gumbo. Be sure and try the oat fiber some time. I think you'll find it is quite nice.

Peggy,

You may have missed where I wrote I did try the oat fiber and it did work well. I found it makes a good shake coating for deep fried chicken wings too...where I used to use cornstarch. It doesn't take that much cornstarch but eliminating those carbs is easy using the oat fiber. I think the oat fiber actually adds to the taste and helps buffalo sauce adhere well.

I just got some einkhorn flour to try some of your other recipes, I'll keep that in mind. That reminds me, I didn't even look at the carb load on that. I was shocked at the carb load in oat flour...I think I only bought it because its in that Jennifer Eloff's baking mix...so I dont use it much and there's not that much in the baking mix...AND I only make THAT to make your cheddar biscuits!

I keep xanthan gum in a fine holed salt/spice shaker. It makes it so easy to just dust a little in to any dish or sauce to tighten it up

I backed up ans saw that post, Ken. Glad you trialed the oat fiber for Cajun roux. It really is the best I've come up with so far. Honestly, the out flour I pretty much just use to make up Jen's bake mix, too. I have used it when out of Einkorn flour, but like you say, the carb count is less desirable than I would like on oat flour. I have been using Jen's bake mix interchangeable for Carbquik or other flour in recipes when I'm in a pinch. Haven't had a disaster doing that YET.

Yes, I've been using xanthan gum in a shaker for ages. It takes so little to do the job that just seemed the besst tact to take to limit gloppy issues. Tip: just heat the tines of a kitchen fork and melt 4-6 holes in the lid of the plastic container it ships in. Works like a champ. :)