Why quit L.C.-WOE?

[jomil]

I started CAD in mid March this year and have lost very slowly about 10 lbs,
I have recently read the Diet Revolution by Atkin's and was disappointed to see the bulk of the book devoted to protecting his WOE.
I am now curious to hear the reasons why people are leaving the LC diet, if that is possible, on this forum. I guess the only people participating in this forum are the one's committed to LC WOL...... like me.
The reason for my curiosity is that I have been on beta blockers, aspirin, and nitro-patches for a couple of years due to my previous angina attacks, and I don't want to get any additional side affects from LC. WOL.
I doubt anybody that quits LC will still be reading this forum, however I am interested to hear from anybody.

[JULIA]

hi,

You wanted to know why some people quit, well I was on the atkins diet before and lost 45 pounds and thought I looked good and could go back to my normal style of eating. Well that thought was wrong as in 2 years I gained back the 45 and about 20 more, so now i'm trying it again. It also can get frustrating with not being able to eat the foods you love like pasta, bread and potatoes, but i keep seeing that there is now low-carb breads and such its just a matter of finding them in ontario. Well wish me luck.:rolleyes:

[Karen]

Hi jomil,

I know what you mean about Atkins book. If you ignore it, the bones of low-carbing are still there. Have you read Protein Power? The authors actually say it's not easy and give suggestions and encouragement.

This is a great question. You should also post it in the Daily Low Carber forum where more people will have a chance to contemplate it.

I do not intend to stop this WOL. I've made to much progress to ever want to go back to my old ways of thinking and eating. After watching people come and go for quite a while on this forum and replying to many posts, I think I can answer it.

Top 10 Reasons for Leaving a LC WOE...


1. Viewing the WOE as a diet instead of a way to learn new eating habits. Something you can stop doing when you’ve lost weight and go back to your old eating habits
2. Not researching this WOE thoroughly before beginning. People say they've tried it but it doesn't work. They've never read a book, or committed to changing their eating habits
3. Carb addiction, which can be as serious as being an alcoholic or a drug addict. The pull of addiction will not go away unless you work on yourself. Self examination is crucial if you're an addict.
4. Peer group pressure.
5. Pressure from the medical community
6. Lack of community support. Everybody wants to feel like they belong to a community. Eating low-carb can certainly make it seem like you are outside of a community.
7. Perceived lack of variety in eating choices.
8. Unwillingness to change or look upon the WOE as a learning experience. To quote Einstein: Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results
9. Expecting instant results. Comparing your results to someone else's and thinking the WOE is not working for you
10. Being tired, bored or lonely

I am curious though jomil, why do you think people leave the WOE?

Karen

[jomil]

Thanks Julia for picking up on my question that I posted on June 24th.
Thanks Karen for your detailed comments, and your useful suggestion of posting this thread on the other Forum which I don't know how to change without having to retype the whole thing.
My original reason for asking this question was to establish whether any of the members of LC dieting that where taking medication for their angina, had had side effects on this low carb., high protein and fat diet, which necessitated them to drop from this WOE lifestyle.
I certainly would find it difficult to approach any cardiologists with this question, as the medical profession in general seem to frown on this WOL.
I do agree that this is not to be expected as a short term diet, but as a lifetime WOL.
I believe that the majority of the new member of this Forum expect to go back to their original way of eating and maintain their lowered weight. I am certainly convinced that this cannot be done,
I will read Power Protein as you suggest Karen, and see if the writers spend most of the book space protecting their theory against the medical profession (aka Atkins) or give you the plain unvarnished facts.
Personally I have been stalled at 187/188 lbs. for the last six weeks, but I cannot honestly blame the LC diet, because I don't count every single carb. each day.
I want to be able to eat my meals instinctively knowing what is the right and wrong foods to eat, and how much of it can be consumed, without having to look up each item in a chart or reference book. To me that would represent the ultimate WOL.
Regards
Joe

[Karen]

Hi jomil,

I read ASDLC frequently and there are many success stories of cholesterol coming in to balance after following this WOE for a while. Initially with some people, it seems to spike, then settles down. I wish that I had more solid facts to comfort you.

When I first started this WOE, I made a list of things that I liked to eat from the lists in Protein Power with the portions and carb counts beside them. I kept one on the fridge and one at work. This was how I "constructed" my meals. After a few months of doing this and keeping a journal, it became second nature. I will be celebrating my 2 year LC anniversary at the end of July.

Have you considered switching to a lower carb WOE? Sometimes a change is better...

If you ask Doreen, she can probably move your thread to the Daily Low Carber Forum.

Karen

[jomil]

Wow the power of suggestion by Karen!
When I returned to read the LC Forum this evening, low and behold this thread had moved to the regular Forum as if by magic, or Doreen? (Which I thank you, if so.)
I think that your ideas for writing little notes giving sizes and carbs is great. I will proceed to do this soonest.
Meanwhile I might try your thoughts about going to a LOWER carb WOE.... but I cannot give up as yet that daily single slice of toasted Dimpflmier Monastery Bread (cut in two) containing a 1 oz. slice of old cheddar cheese, plus my morning fresh ground- bean coffee with a tablespoon of 10% cream and a teaspoon of sugar. This is my only indulgence each day. The rest of the day I follow the atkins WOL pretty religiously, I think.
Regards
Joe
P.S. I wish I was living closer to join you all at the Vancouver BBQ.

[Karen]

The magic of Doreen, for which we are all grateful. :D

Ahhhhhh! Dimpfilmier bread! Toasted no less!

I have a theory about eating food, or eating it in a way that binds you to your old self. In weight loss, you are literally creating a new body, a new you. This is where I've really seen that my mind and body cannot be separated.

When I eat in an way that has nothing to do with physical hunger, my weight will remain the same. I may be under or at my carb allowance for the day, but it doesn't make any difference. When I indulge in LC sweets, out of blind craving, the same thing happens.

Joe, all you Ontario guys should get a Magic Low-Carb bus together and drive it to Vancouver, spreading the LC word through Canada. Wouldn't that be a hoot!

Shades of Tom Wolfe! You're either on the bus, or off the bus! :p

Karen

[jomil]

Karen when I re-read your comments, I find them very philosophical.
And..... what's so bad with Dimpfilmier Toast? It can't be more than 10 gms. of carb. It's still much lower than the 30 carb. bagels that I use to devour each morning.
But, on further contemplation of your comments, the ideal situation would be to completely chuck out the previous eating habits and start anew.
How many new conscripts to the Atkins WOE would have the will power to do this?
After reading many of the new members questions, I firmly believe that very few would be able to cut out their old ways of eating on a permanent basis.
How many members will give up their so called health bars that contain chocolate flavours. How many will stop eating their high carb heritage foods?
Everybody has a script written in to their lives and will find it next to impossible to "start a new body".
Regards
Joe
P.S. - Please don't read the above and assume that I am against this diet, because I think that this is the ultimate way of losing weight....no matter how long it takes.

[Karen]

Hi Joe,

Nothing is wrong with Dimpfilmier toast. It just took me back about 25 years to when I lived in Waterloo. It was nice to experience it again in memory. Ahhhhh...such a great taste, smell and texture.

I'll assume that a great majority who want to take on this way of eating is an addict.

Alcohol can be addictive and it's not necessary to consume it to live. Narcotics can be addictive and it's not necessary to consume them to live. Sugar can be addictive and it's not necessary to consume it to live.

Why do these substances have so much pull and attraction for us? Because we've become addicted to them. A phrase from 12 step programs crosses my mind - food/alcohol/narcotics; cunning, baffling, powerful. Look at all the people who when they consume carbs while on this WOE instantly regret it, feel guilty and ashamed. They will say they don't know why they did it. They couldn't help it, will never do it again etc. It is exactly the same as an alcoholic or a junkie who is trying to give it up talking. What makes it OK is that it's socially acceptable to drink 7-11 Slushies while driving in your car.

I agree that it would be (and is) very hard for most people to give up their old eating habits, because they have to shed their old selves along with it. In the written script of our lives, each day becomes the past, it's not the future unless you write yourself in as the fat lady singing.

Joe, I'm really enjoying this discussion with you and ruminating on and questioning the low-carb experience. Thanks!

Karen

[debbiedobson]

well i'm certainly not the philosophers that you guys are!:D i did want to mention though, that most lowcarbers do give up their old ways of eating. cut the sugar, bread, pasta and potatoes right out of their lives. as karen said, for many people carbs are an addiction. i know that i'm a carb addict. one slice of good bread would make me want the whole loaf. 1 piece of chocolate! never!!! i like to eat chocolate until i feel sick! i'm really pathetic when it come to carbs. i'm irish/italian, so i'd eaten pasta and potatoes all my life. i've been lowcarbing for over 2 years now and i really don't miss my old carbs! i also don't go in for the fakes very often because they set me off on a binge! i'm just telling you this to let you know that it can be done! if a carb junkie like me can do it, anyone can!:D

[fiona]

Hi everyone :D

Have to put my pennyworth in.

I started this WOE in May just two months ago. There are days when I can't believe how much my life has changed. Internally my attitudes, mood swings, mental state, energy levels are so different that it is of itself bringing about (albeit slowly) external changes that seem almost miraculous.

To give you an example I lost touch with a really good friend of mine who I really missed from time to time but was too angry to approach for about 7 years. But I always remembered her birthday and when it came round this time I sent her a card. She immediately wrote to me asking for my phone number (it had changed). We have since seen each other 3 times (she lives about 70 miles away so that is quite a feat in two short months) and spoken on the phone a lot more. The relationship (I won't pretend everything is hunky dory and all the tension/anger has melted away) is coming alive and it makes me feel really good that we are getting closer. And all because my mood was stable long enough at "Happy" and "Joyous" for me to send her a card.

That is just one of five relationships which are on a healing path (in varying degrees) for me.

I was a total carb addict and have had occasional moments when I do long for the psychological comfort that I had come to associate with carb foods for many years - especially at that time of the month or when any kind of disappointment hit me. As Dr Atkins says in his book "It’s not the sign of a weak character, it’s the sign of a chemical compulsion. Having successfully passed Phase I – the Maximum Fat-Burning Phase – choose NOT to celebrate reaching your ideal weight by downing ice cream, choclate chip cookes and other assorted sugar dainties. That is the best way to reactivate an addiction. The human body was not meant to consume sugar the way we do. The chemical addiction is entirely real. Like an alcoholic it can only be dealt with by complete abstinence. "

That para really struck a chord with me because I had passed judgment on myself for being weak and self-indulgent and amased a huge burden of guilt and shame and secret self-hatred for many years while pretending to live a normal "happy" life.

Check! I'm carrying on too long.

[Karen]

Hi Fiona and Debbie,

That's a wonderful story Fiona! I thought I was the only one out there who had similar experiences. Deb, I would like to believe that low-carbers give up there old way of eating, but I can't when I find so many people hopping on and off this board, looking for a quick fix.

I never realized what an addict I was until I stopped consuming carbs. I still go on binges, but I would never go back to the way I was. It's like the WOL has given me a new lease on life. You're right Fiona. It is a miracle.

Karen

[fiona]

Thanks Karen.

One of the things I used to do was not talk honestly about how I really felt. As you say you don't realise how much of an addict you are until you give up and experience life differently. The isolation of thinking "I'm the only one" is a pretty painful and demoralising one.

Hopefully some carb-addict may be inspired and helped. It all seems such needless suffering now.
Take care. ;)

[jomil]

Wow, what a wonderful participation from Fiona, Debbie and Karen on the subject of carb addiction.
I hate the reference to the word "addiction". To me it represents most things that effect your well being in a bad way. And I agree that certain things should not be touched if your addicted, ie: liquor, drugs, and cigarettes. But I fail to see how carbs fall into that category.
Can you honestly say that moderation in carb. consumption is really bad? Are you certain that If you continue on a maximum 20 to 60 gram carb. diet the rest of your life, that there will be no ill effects? Does anybody really know what a minimum carb diet should be to stay healthy?
FOOD FOR THOUGHT!
Regards
Joe
P.S.- I was certainly delighted to hear about the many healthy results reported above, that have been accomplished by sticking to the LC WOL.
I am going to continue on this charted road towards losing weight, and hopefully wean my self off the beta blocker. aspirin. and nitro patch which is required to reduce my hypertension.

[fiona]

Hi Jomil

<<word "addiction". To me it represents most things that effect your well being in a bad way. >>

For many years I worked on addictions. Gave up coffee (caffiene), tea (tanin), emotional responses to situations, tried hard and failed to cut down on sugar/choclates, refused to take drugs for depression but things just got worse.

My relationships were failing, my confidence was at an all-time low; my work was suffering; my moods were swinging all over the place. I was happy and enthusiastic when I woke up but (with hindsight) after a high-carb breakfast I was down again never quite understanding why I had suddenly lost my joy. Winter was just one long depression when I basically went through the motions of existing. I'd say that was affecting my well being in a bad way, wouldn't you? I'd just never known there was a thing called carb-addiction. In fact if things hadn't got as desperate as they did I probably wouldn't have considered giving up vegetarianism. I was ready to try ANYTHING.

It all got better and is getting better still with every passing day of low-carbing.

[Karen]

Hi Joe,

Maybe we'll see a few more addicts "come out" with this!

Not all carbs are bad. We need a certain amount of vegetable matter to keep our bodies functioning. I think the amount of carbs requires depends entirely on the individuals physical needs.

Other carbs are completely devoid of nutritional value. They are white and powdery. Think about other substances, made from plants that are refined into white powder. Some are beneficial, but there is cocaine and heroin in there too.

The carbs that are bad, are the ones that you have become dependent upon. If you've ever used carbs to comfort yourself or control your energy level, you're probably an addict. You have learned to become dependant on them to make you feel better. While the addiction is developing, you don't even realize it. You don't have to gain weight or be fat. There are many thin people addicted to chocolate.

As far as long term goes, I'm looking to my ancestors. We survived pretty well on meat and seasonal vegetables and fruit for a long time before we settled down and started farming. Actually, the farming was OK. It was the refining that was bad.

What's the choice? Tried low fat, tried vegan. Didn't lose any weight, craved sweets all the time, tired, foggy, pre-arthritic, knees hurt, cholesterol level and blood pressure high, skin was a mess. I would rather feel alive and radiant for a few years before my kidneys fall out than weigh 300 pounds at 50 (because that is where I was heading) and die at 51 from a heart attack.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!;)

[jomil]

To Fiona and Karen.......

Read.......understood..........and AGREE

I hope they never, ever, find that my addiction to eggs, salad, beef, chicken, and lamb is detrimental to my health.

The key to living in all aspects is..... MODERATION.

Regards
Joe

[doreen T]

I've been following this thread with much interest (and yes, it was me that moved it ... I confess that I missed it altogether when first posted .. :( .. got "buried" in the list of new threads). Much of what I've wanted to say has already been said. But, I would like to share some thoughts with you all.

On the subject of why people abandon lowcarbing ... as has been stated, unpalatability and lack of motivation/desire are the main reasons. Unpalatability is purely in the mind of the beholder -- if a person believes they are deprived for not having bread and potatoes, then it just becomes their own internal negative reinforcement; a self-fulfilling prophecy in a way. I honestly believe it's more difficult to overcome the wall of resistance from WITHIN than from outside. Not to say that external factors -- doctors, family, peers, the media -- aren't difficult to overcome. But the day we are able to say out loud to ourselves ".. lowcarbing is right and good for me, and this is how I will eat and think for the rest of my days" .. well, the protests and arguments from others just becomes yada-yada.

The idea of addiction of course takes this a step further, because true addiction implies PHYSICAL as well as mental dependence. And indeed, the physical "rush" experienced by ingesting a substance to which one is addicted can be objectively measured ... increased heart rate, flushing, salivation ... resulting from the cascade of hormones and neurochemicals ... including insulin, cortisol, serotonin, dopamine .. the list goes on ..

As for physical/health reasons why a person would be compelled to quit a lowcarb/high protein diet ... I can't think of ANY. If you check Wa'il's Studies pages (on the red menu bar) there are no studies to PROVE ill effect from lowcarbing. NONE. Trust me, if there was such a study, he would have published it there. Of course, there are plenty of pseudo-scientific commentary on the harmful effects of high-protein diets, but these consistently lack supporting evidence or reference. As an aside, I've also made note of the fact that these negative comments are made against excessive protein consumption, and not lowcarbohydrate per se. Also, the anti-FAT studies are based on the consumption of fats in combination with high carbohydrate intake. Studies done on diets that are very high saturated (ie animal-source) fat, and extremely low in carbohydrate, such as some aboriginal peoples around the world ... consistently show the ABSENCE of ill health.

As a nurse, I can imagine some situations where a person might have to restrict protein intake ... such as if they develop severe kidney disease due to infection, or a traumatic shock-state (eg. an accident where a great deal of blood volume has been lost), or alcoholism. However, that does not preclude lowCARB, since the caloric defecit can be made up with fats. Infants and children are able to THRIVE and develop normally following highFAT, moderate protein, carb-restricted ketogenic diets used for treating epilepsy that won't respond to the standard drug therapies.

I realise I'm just repeating what the others have said, but my observation has been that people who follow a lowcarb WOL for health reasons, and not just vanity reasons (that sounds bad, but it's the only word I could think of .. :rolleyes: ) will experience benefits that go far beyond the fit of one's clothes, and the number on the scale. And those benefits will be what keeps us firmly on the path to our goal, even if we stray a little now and then.

Life's like that.

Doreen

[jomil]

Thank you Doreen for your excellent input to this thread.

With all you MENTORS behind me reinforcing the LC WOE, I am going to make every effort to lose the required additional 20/30 lbs. by Oct./Nov. this year and see if this results in my elimating the medications that I have been taking which has been resulting in my lethargic feeling ever since I started the medications nearly two years ago.

Good health is my main reason for persuing this WOL.

I gave up on worrying about appearances years ago, and at this stage in life I would consider 'better' appearance as a perk, in addition to good health.

Regards
Joe

[Karen]

Yep! It's not all about what you put into your mouth. Some of it's about what you put into your mind!

Joe, yours would be an amazing success story if you could stop taking your medication. What an inspiration it would be!

I'm thinking saint-hood? ;)

Karen

[Lisa&Craig]

Wow,
For everyone that posted here, I must say that I have never been so deep in thought after reading all of your inputs!

With support like this I'm positive that we can kick the addictions and be reborn to this WOL.

I do agree that it should be referred to as an addiction because people have learned to "Sugar Coat"(lol) their problems. Never really looking into what the contents are of those problems, whatever they may be.

I know that addicts don't often see that they are so, but once they have an eye opening experience, even if it's a bad one such as an accident or the death of another addict, I hope they see how bad their situation truly is.

So if calling a high carb eating habit an "Addiction" helps some people to see that it is more serious than some may say....
....I Say..."Hi my name is Lisa, and was addicted to carbs. I have now been carb sober for three months!" ( only taking in the necessary amounts)

I just got the news today that my father, 55, just had a small stroke on Saturday. This, a year after he suffered a bad angina attack. He put on 20 lbs since last years episode, now Doc is telling him to lose weight.
I am scared for him.... I'm only 25 and don't want to lose him.
If you get any news that the medications won't interfere or this WOL will eventually cancel the need for those medications, please keep me informed.

Regards
Lisa:)

[Karen]

Hi Lisa,

So sorry to hear about your father. Experiencing this is scary. It makes you feel all that more vulnerable and mortal.

I have no medical advice, but certainly this WOE wouldn't cause any harm. It could be very valuable to do just from the feeling great perspective.

Karen

[doreen T]

Lisa, I'm sorry too about your Dad ... I've been in the same place as you ... it's a worry, that's for sure.

Atkins, Protein Power, Carb Addicts and all their related sequels are FULL of stories about how people have prevented and REVERSED these disease conditions ... reduced or eliminated the need for medications, even insulin for some diabetics! Check out Wa'il's Studies pages, on the red menu bar at the top. As well, there are many testimonials in the posts right here on this message board from real people who have improved their health with lowcarbing. On the forum Home page, scroll down to the Health and Support category, you'll find lots of encouraging evidence how lowcarbing has proven beneficial for many disease conditions.

I hope things work out well for your dad ... At this stage I'm sure he's feeling rather overwhelmed and confused himself, and following doctors orders and medications etc .. If he's not already aware of lowcarbing, perhaps a gentle suggestion for him to read some of the lowcarb books, or if he has internet access, maybe he would have the chance to come and read some of the information on this site. It's best for him to read and learn for himself, ask questions etc ....

All the best

Doreen

[doreen T]

To Joe

I kinda got side-tracked yesterday in my carb RANT ... :rolleyes:

One point I wanted to discuss, is your desire to get off the medications ... in my mind also, I would see that as a sign not just of improved health, but as a REVERSAL of the nasty processes that have been wreaking havoc inside your body.

It CAN be done, it HAS been done ... as I mentioned in my previous post to Lisa. But there's one testimonial that's a little closer to home for me, and I think would be very meaningful and encouraging for you as well. That is my brother's story. He's told it very well in a letter, sent to WebMD .... one of the great bastions of lowFAT high starch diets .... They have never responded to him.

His letter is posted in the Health support area of this message board, under Heart Disease and Cholesterol ... or, you can click here to read it (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=269). He continues to do well, and is off all medication except for an arthritic knee, which has plagued him all his life (since a high school football mishap).

I hope this provides some inspiration for you.

Doreen

[jomil]

To Doreen and Karen

I don't know what magic power you guys have but I finally broke the stall this morning and lost 3lbs.

My weight is 184.5 heading for 170 I hope.

I have been reading Protein Power the last two days and find that the writers are lot more down-to- earth in their touting of LC WOE, than Atkins. I think I might switch from CAD to PP. What do you think?

Once a person breaks the stall does anybody know what the next plateau will be?

That reminds me I will have to change my weight 'profile' with a great deal of pleasure.

Regards
Joe

[Karen]

What great news Joe!

If you send Doreen a return plane ticket to Vancouver, she'lll tell you when your next plateau will be! ;)

I think PP is great. It was the first book I read on the subject. I followed it almost to the letter for the first 5-6 months. I went very easy on fruit and high fat dairy products. I didn't use any substitutes except for AS in my coffee, which I eventually gave up using anyway.

Then I started reading about whipping cream, high fat cheeses, "legal" treats and SF Jell-o with the Atkins plan. And I started eating them. I'm not blaming the Atkins plan at all. My eventual plateau would have occurred no matter what because I simply wasn't ready to lose any more weight at the time. My body and brain had to get the weight loss thing sorted out. I needed to sit back, watch and evaluate.

I've read the Zone, PP, PP Life Plan and Atkins, Atkins Age Defying Diet. I have to read CAD next. I've been a bit scared to because I've been training myself not to look at food as a reward, and the idea of a reward meal is to tempting. Jewellery is much better! I know there is valuable information contained in it, just like in the other books.

There is no harm in trying. It may start you on a solid downward trend.

I have two things to say about stalls and plateaus. A rest is better than a change, or a change is better than a rest!

Congrats again Joe!

Karen

[Elihnig]

Why would someone give up the Low Carb way of life? Well, for some people the temporary pleasure they get from high carb items and sugar out weighs the long-term pleasure that they get from have good spirits and high energy all the time. A few weeks ago, I went on a mini-vacation to my mother's house. I know that it's always tough going there because just being back in the home where I was raised makes me want the things that I used to eat. Actually, the day that I left for there, I decided to have the last of the Raison Bran cereal to get it out of the house. I figured the fiber would do me some good, and since I was only 10 or 15 pounds away from my goal I thought it wouldn't hurt me. Around 10 a.m. a started dragging. By 11:00 a.m. I was actually depressed and sad like I used to be. My husband said "What's wrong?" and I said "I don't know." We used to have this conversation a lot before I started low carb eating almost a year ago, I was always feeling that way. Then I figured out, it's the carbs! I went to my mother's house and had all my meals except two on target. From those two meals that I ate out, I gained weight. When I got back home the scale said 9 pounds! Well if that isn't depressing. So back on induction since Sunday and today I'm back where I was within a pound or so.

As to your health concerns, primitive man did not have refined flour and sugar. Cavemen barely had grains, especially in the ice ages when the growing times were so short. Human being lived on meat by hunting and with some gathering in season. They spent winters eating mostly meat. Eskimos (still living the lifestyle of their ancestors) today spent most of their winter eating Caribu meat, and have a diet high in fat, low in carbohydrates and no diabetes, no heart problems, and no overweight.

If you are concerned about your medications then call the Atkin's center for a phone appointment. Perhaps they can even refer you to someone in your area.

Refined flour and sugar put money in someone else's pockets. Meat, fish, poultry and vegetables are what the human animal is supposed to eat (and helps our farmers who can't sell meat and eggs above fair market value). I could quote more but if you've read the book why bother? I reread the book at intervals to help me keep going and have joined two on-line groups to keep me from being lonely.

Elihnig

[tamarian]

Ditto Elihnig, I love the caveman and Eskimo argument :)

Wa'il

[otenn]

All joking aside Wa'il, I live in a remote community up North in Manitoba. It is not quite in the NWT, or Nunavit, but close enough. It is a reservation and my husband is a First Nation Canadian of Dene Origin.

The people here still live a very traditional lifestyle. As we speak my brothers in law are out on the boat checking fishing nets to bring the catch to my mother in law and some other women who are working on cutting, preparing and smoking the fish. In the winter months the diet is primarily caribou meat. My husband hunts for his family of 10 brothers and sisters and parents plus their children and probably brings in about 20 caribou a year himself during the season from Novemeber to April.

At my mother in law's house, on any given day you could go inside and find some kind of meat or fish being dried, smoked, boiled or baked in (or outside of) her house. There certainly was no availability of grains, and sugar and flour were luxury items picked up on twice yearly supply trips until the store was built about 15 years ago. Low Carb eating is a matter of nature here.

I can tell you that you see very few overweight people in this community, and what there is of that, is likely recently acquired due to the influences of the fast food and overprocessed food that has become available in the past 15 years with the advancement of the store here. (Northern Store by the way, chain of North West Company). My husband works there, and there are not a lot of healthy food options!

Just a personal note, my husband weighed about 180 lbs when I met him 3 years ago. He had maintained that weight for most of his adult life, standard size 34 pants which were a little baggy on him. He worked hard cutting and hauling wood for heating his house during the long winters and even hauling water for drinking and doing laundry and cleaning as we only got a water system here last year. He ate a diet of primarily meat.

When he started living with me, his diet changed dramatically as I was in carbo-heaven at the time, and he loved every new thing he tried. His weight went up to as high as 225 just about when I started low carbing in April of this year. I'm sure part of that was food, and some had to do with the fact that he now lived in a house with a furnace (teacher accomodations are a little more advanced) and didn't have to do as much physical hard work just to survive day to day. With no real effort on his own, just the fact that I stopped cooking potatoes and rice and buying bread etc... he has dropped 25 lbs and is down one pants size. He still has some bread and eats far more carbohydrates than I do, but I think the "push" he got into what is probably a more natural state of eating for him and his culture and probably genetics is showing a substantial difference without much effort.

For these anecdotal reasons, I really believe that the way we were meant to eat, is far different from how I have been eating, and although I am not calling my people here "cavemen", I certainly think they are a lot closer to a "natural" diet than any diet I was raised on.

Whatever the case, seems to be working for Ed! Just my 2 cents.

Mari

[Karen]

Doreen, that's a fantastic way of describing a plateau. I must make a mental note of that!

Mari, I love your story! Is any kind of seaweed part of the Dene's traditional diet?

Karen

[doreen T]

Originally posted by Karen

If you send Doreen a return plane ticket to Vancouver, she'lll tell you when your next plateau will be! ;) One-way ticket is fine. Anybody want to sublet a furnished apartment in Kingston?? Gorgeous view.

Plateaus are good, and necessary. Plateaus mean a levelling off. When you're climbing a mountain, a plateau is a welcome relief, and chance for the body to catch up. Weight loss plateaus should be viewed the same way. The body is just levelling off, giving the mind-set extra time to develop the new lowcarb habits. If we hit a plateau, and cheat or binge with carby foods, it's like going back down the mountain, and the climb back up to where we were is harder than ever.

Pretty much everything we do in life is filled with stops and starts, charging full-steam ahead and then stale periods of immobilization ... our relationships, education, careers ... as well as health issues. We have no way of knowing in advance how long or how often ... It's taken me many years to come to feel this way though ... didn't happen overnight that's for sure! But I guess it's all just part of life's journey.

I posted this elsewhere, but it holds true in this discussion as well ... "You CAN have it all -- you just can't have it all NOW."

Doreen

[Dandi]

My experience has been that going without fast-acting carbs was not difficult once I really gave them up for a period of time and got them cleared out of my system. Until that was done, food and appetite controlled me. Once it was done, I was free.

Today my husband and I had to go to an ice cream social. We didn't eat or drink anything except water. We did do a lot of visiting. And we had a good time. I did not feel deprived nor tempted to eat.

We want to be healthy. And, for us, that meant giving up all "health bars", non-nutritive sweeteners, mayo, all processed foods, all fast-acting carb foods.

There is a reward that is sweeter than any food-reward and that is freedom. Freedom from the necessity to have to eat fast-acting carbs. And from that terrible appetite that rides your back as long as you're taking in even small amounts of fast-acting carbs and trigger foods. As long as I kept searching for those foods which would "satisfy" my fast-acting carb appetite -- I was never satisfied and always hungry. To have food running one's life is not fun.

Dandi

[jomil]

I had completely forgotten about this thread until Dandi posted a further commentary. Thank you Dandi!

It gave me an opportunity to again review all the various comments and reflect on my experience for the past (nearly) 12 months.

1. I have had a net gain of approximately 10 pounds, as a result of really losing control of my LC WOE.

2. In the past few months I have continued to fight back to gain control my of my low carb consumption.

3. I confess I have never stopped completely, eating toasted rye bread (mainly for breakfast), but i have managed to stop eating half the loaf like I use to do before going on this WOE. Does this mean that I am still addicted to Carbs?

I am wondering what the results have been for the past year to the other participants to this thread, namely:

Julia, Debbiedobson, Fiona, Lisa&Craig, Elihnig, and Otenn!!!!!!!

I know what Karen and Doreen have been up to because I have been religiously following their Journals. Still would be nice to hear from them again.

Dandi, I was curious why you found it necessary to completely eliminate "non-nutritive sweetners and mayo.

Regards
Joe

[Dandi]

Hi Joe,
I had to eliminate those foods because when I ate them they did not satisfy hunger but instead they made me to want to eat more.
I am learning that whenever something I eat has that effect on me, it is not good for me.

If I continue eating it my appetite grows (literally) more and more and my hypoglycemic symptoms get worse.

Mayo and non-nutritive sweeteners are supposed to be okay but when I ate them I saw a pattern develope that they made me want to eat more. That appetite may seem "controlled" for a few days but gradually it increases. And then I find myself chomping away on the fast-acting carbs and gaining weight. Things like diet pop and diet gelatin and puddings and health bars were real traps for me.

I still generally eat a low carb meal or snack every three hours, about five times a day and I really enjoy the foods I eat. I eat as much as I want, don't count calories or carbs. Am losing weight and have good energy. Walked five miles this morning at a good stiff pace and felt good. And I slept good all night last night without having to eat in the evening or during the night like I used to have to do. But I'm also learning I have to be careful of the types and amounts of fruits that I eat or they set me up for trouble too. Difficulty sleeping well all night is often the first sign that I am not eating correctly.

I don't have to eat in the way I used to have to. If a meal time or snack time rolls around and I'm too busy to eat, it's okay. I may feel a bit empty but that's all. Food and appetite just doesn't controll me like they used to. And for me that is a delightful reward.

People are different. I could not eat one slice of any kind of bread without setting myself up for a return of that off-balance form of appetite. But a neighbor woman of mine eats fast-acting carbs when she wants and stays at a thin 129# with no trouble. That's why I believe so strongly in keeping a written record. There is so much guidance in it. If a person hits a plateau or gains, he or she can check back a few days and see what changed.

Hope these thoughts are helpful.

Dandi

[jomil]

Thank you Dandi for your useful thoughts.

I understand your reasoning fully. I have the same problem with chocolates... one leads to the whole box, and therefore I try not to have any lying around the house.

However 'toasted rye bread' can be controlled and therefore I do have the odd slice every couple of days.

I have never quite quit the L.C. Woe, however I have stretched the rules slightly during the winter period when I was exposed to all kinds of latin american delicious foods. I thusly gained over 10 pounds.

I know exactly why and how I gained this weight and have found it necessary to return to a more strict L.C. WOE. I also feel that calories plays a very important part of this WOE.

Regards
Joe

P.S. Did an Atken "Fat Fast" yesterday and dropped 3 lbs. on the scales this morning. However I will not change my chart on the side until the weight of 183 stays with me for at least a week.

[Dandi]

Hi Joe,
I agree that calories do affect weight and weight-loss. But I don't want to have to count and figure them. Therefore, I'm happy to have found a way to eat that makes me lose weight without having to count calories. Once in a while I do sit down and figure up the amounts of calories and of proteins, carbs, fats and of vitamins and minerals that I am taking in. It is sort of a health retreat/examination time. www.fitday.com has been a big help with this. The results of this examination tell me if I'm off-track in some way, so that I can adjust as needed. But I don't want to have to go into that much detailed work very often.

Ten pounds isn't very much to have gained. And won't take you long to lose. It sounds like you've already started losing them. I have a friend who allows herself no more than a five pound gain and then she goes on a stricter WOE. That seems like a worthy WOL so I'm thinking of making that my rule too, after I lose these other 16 pounds.

It seems there are degrees of sensitiveness to fast-acting carbs. And each of us has to find out his/her own degree of reaction to them. That's why I do not think there is any one WOE that is just right for all people. Since I think health is a matter of balance, I also think that a person may follow one WOE for a while to get back into balance and then needs to adjust or perhaps even to go to a new WOE to maintain balance.

The paleo WOE seems perfect for me. The foods are natural and a person can move one way or the other, more protein or more vegetable, in order to restore and maintain balance for health. That seems to me the way we are meant to live. And this WOE works for me. That is the essential point -- it works. That's key for each of us -- to find the WOE and WOL that works.

Dandi

[deze]

Hi all,
one thing to keep in mind also, is that going by weight lost can be deceiving... alot of people here actually go by inches lost... if you track this, you may be more accurate... the reason being... muscle weighs more than fat...
check out this pic: (the first post in this link)
Fat vs Muscle (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37260)
as you get more toned and muscular.. you may actually be smaller, but heavier... see what I mean? Try tracking inches rather than weight.... sometimes you retain water more than others etc...

hope this helps,
jodi

[m7griffin]

Please don’t give up. Just as when we took a very dull class in school – we had to find a reason to like it, the same is true here also.
The reason to lose weight is critical. It doesn’t involve dieting; it involves a conscience understanding that you are killing yourself. Nothing will bring a person to their senses faster than being diagnosed as a diabetic. Even that may seem minor and there could be wonder as to why the doctor is so concerned. You are referred to a foot Dr. and other Drs. Slowly you sense that they are looking at YOU seriously. You do some Google research and begin to see for yourself that this diabetes thing can affect most parts of your body without any “timely” warnings. That is the reason to not diet but to change your lifestyle. Controlling carbohydrates and fats AND calories is imperative.
Diets seem, to define to us, giving up some foods for a while. That is not common sense. We had poor eating habits that got us overweight and if we keep our old eating ‘mentality’, we will return to the “scene of the crime”. There are a huge number of quality food choices to help us enjoy the changes that are necessary to achieve and remain at a lower weight. They are usually around the edge of the super market, not in the middle where the convenient processed foods are. Processed foods are foods that are too convenient and release their energy (converted to glucose) faster. Even Healthy Choice isn’t a healthy choice. What food manufacturers do to us should be criminal. You have to READ the entire label, including the ingredients and their order. And what “Diet Gurus” do to us is equally defeating. The various diets provide information about what we should and should not be eating BUT they are distracting us from the real issue; life change! Popular diets keep you focused on ‘the rules’ instead of allowing you to use common sense to “see” what is more correct or less correct to eat. I think that seeing the ‘personal mental changes’ that you need to make are more difficult when you are distracted by narrow ‘diet’ rules. Grasp the common sense concept and enjoy the new challenges of developing new combinations of good food choices that keep you on track. I did and I have lost thirty pounds in 2 months. I’m now starting another drive to lose 20 pounds. I’m embarrassed that I am heavier than my friends. How could I possibly have less control of my life than they do over theirs? More so, the longer I stay heavy, the closer to death I trudge. Sorry, I didn’t intend this to be a sermon. Sermon is now over.

Martin

[jomil]

Hello Martin:

Thanks for your comments.

It has been nearly two years since I first started this thread, (June 24/01).

I had just started the Dr. A. diet in March of that year and I was full of new enthusiasm for the possibility of possibly losing 50 pounds and maybe being able to stop taking the various medications for my high blood pressure and my heart.

Well it is now two years later, my weight is at it's maximum of 198 pounds; I am now taking three medications instead of two; and Dr. A is sadly dead.

Who is to be our new leader? Who is going to give us are inspiration to fight fat? Maybe our group will be able to continue to encourage each other, just as it has in the past, when everybody was saying that this diet is to dangerous. We were able to persevere thoughout that period and continue our low carb battle. Now it seems that low carb is in the main stream of diets. I just read in this mornings Miami Herald that the liquor companies are considering put the diet details on their labels to ride the current diet rage.

What a diference two years make. We have over 40,000 members, and I feel that we have lost that "homey touch".

But Martin, thanks anyways for bringing me out of my doldrums for a short period. Which leader do we follow now?

Regards

Joe

P.S. Will be heading back to Mississauga in less than a month. Meanwhile I will correct my identity and weight.

[AL2105]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and this is just my second post. I know the thread is old but I thought I'd share why I wanted to quit LC and explain now why I'm back.

I was just on a severly restricted low carb diet (basically 90% meat, breakfast, lunch and dinner) for a month and thought I'd have to make some kind of changes because of bad breath, body odor, and pardon me for saying, extremely foul smelling BM. I was feeling good, rarely hungry, and had plenty of energy for 6 days a week vigorous exercise but the odors were becoming a problem. I added what I thought were healthy carbs at regular intervals, you know - fruit, whole grains and veggies, and that took care of the odor problem. But before I knew what happened I was guzzling pepsi and chowing down on extra large bags of Doritos sitting in front of the tube. I lost the energy to exercise (I was sometimes doing 2 a days and then couldn't do one session for two days in a row) and was feeling moody, tired, and constantly hungry.

I was explaining this to a family member and later that day happened across the Heller's Carb Addict book. Yes, I"d heard of them before but wrote them off without reading because I thought its theory was an excuse for a lack of willpower. Til I had my own episodes of uncontrolled carb eating that is. :-)

So now I"m headed back to LC but I'm debating going back to my very strict regimen, the CAD, or a paleo version of the Warrior Diet.

Hope this isn't too old a thread to bring this up again. I did enjoy writing about my experience though! Thanks for reading.
AL