How did you become SO obese?

[levi]

first of all, this posting is not intended to flame anybody nor to make fun about anyones weight problems.

i really am curious to know how it could happen that you end up 300+ lbs as a male or 200+ as a female.

surely genetics may play a role but i think here in germany there are also lots of people with bad genetics, borderline-diabetes, hypothyrodism and so on but it is absolutely rare to see men or women being 40 or 45% or even more BF.

yes, there are lots of obese people here too, but not THAT obese, do you understand what i mean?

whenever i watch something on tv about the us, say a report from new york and they just show a street and some pedestrians there are SEVERAL poor guys or girls among them who look like 50% bf+ - does it have to do with bad nutritional education in the childhood ? or the constant availability of sugar-foods (well, its virtually the same here in europe, we`ve got mc d, burgwer king, pizza hut, smarties, pop tarts ..., too, so i dont think thats the point)

again, i do not want to blame anybody for being obese, i really am curious about the reason for what i described above.

thanks a lot for your honest answers.

[OKwoer]

"How to Win Friends and Influence People" by levi

[DarkLotus]

I have read articles recently on a study that persons with lower incomes generally have a poor diet and/or are more likely to be overweight. This does not mean everyone of course. I would guess that not being able to afford the better brands of foods that have less additives and fillers would be one reason that poor people tend to be heavier according to what I read. And, for the record, I grew up poor too ;)

The cheaper brands of foods have all kinds of things in them: for instance, I was comparing two brands of chicken broth, the store brand turned out to contain potato starch and said zero carbs, the brand name did not have any starches at all. So I paid one dollar more per can for the better brand. Not everyone can do that though. Also, just about everything in the grocery store has sugar in it.

Why am I so obese? (And you probably have PO'd some people with this post you know) Let's see...where to start...beer, beer, birth control, genetics, beer, and lack of exercise were my downfall.

[Bonnie]

If I could jump in here with my thoughts :) ...I was never what you would call terribly obese...the problem with anyone who may have a weight problem is the fact that high carb foods are cheap compared to high protein foods... go to any restaurant and what do they serve... small portions of protein loaded with huge portions of fries, pasta and other high carb foods to fill up the plates...I suspect with most North Americans when served this pre LC we were conditioned to eat what was on our plates..now armed with LC knowledge we can just say no to those cheap high carb items being served...

Bonnie

[Shark01]

Oh, you don't want to flame anybody huh :mad:

Thread titles like this show your ignorance and bigotry very clearly :thdown:

I don't go around public forums asking why you are SO stupid do I :rolleyes:

Why don't you go spend some more quality time in front of a mirror Zoolander :wave:

[razzle]

If you're interested, Levi, read Adiposity 101, on the web. Also hunt down articles by David Garner, Susan Wooley, other so-called "anti-diet" researchers.

The main non-glandular cause of childhood obesity is overeating, often on the heels of horrible physical or sexual abuse (sometimes living in the face of drug addicted parents can "do it" for sensitive children), In effect, children numb this unthinkable pain with the brain chemicals that sweets produce.

The main cause of adult obesity is low-cal dieting. Every low cal diet lowers metabolism. Every inevitiable regain of weight on the heels of one adds fat cells (the only time you can add fat cells other than 0-3 years, puberty, and pregnancy).

this last ends up being pretty ironic. Most of the fat people you see got there not through a dirth of dietary self-control, but through too much. Like me, they probably have lived years and years on 500 calorie/day diets or less. This is REALLY hard to do--try it for a couple years and see!--and all it does is change your set point weight up by X pounds (probably differs from individual to individual) per year while lowering your metabolism permanently.

For me, I'd say my set point went up by 5 pounds per year of VLCDs. And my metabolism lowered, so that now, any calorie intake over 1600, even doing two hours of exercise per day, even eating low carb, causes weight gain. I'll be interested to see the long-term effect of this. It's quite possible that steady low-cal eating can extend one's lifespan. If the cardiac damage I did myself with those diets doesn't catch up to me, heck, I might live to 140! (er, must go re-calculate retirement planning)

HTH. There's some great medical journal reading out there (not the popular press stuff, which is bullshit), and if you want to educate yourself, that'd be wonderful. I love to see folks educate themselves out of whatever sorts of prejudices they have. It gives me faith in a better world.

[tamarian]

Hi folks,

This thread was moved from the tripple digits support area to general low-carbing.

Wa'il

[Topazmom]

I personally wasn't offended by Levi's question. As you can see he is from Germany, he may not have been able to get his question across in terms that we respond to. I could be wrong, but I think it is just a question of curiousity. Obesity is a huge problem in America. That is why we are all here right? I don't like the word obese, I never have. But it is there. And I have to admit I am. It is a slap in the face, but maybe that is what I need. Levi's question, coming from someone who looks like him seems insulting, but would we have reacted the same way if his picture was different? I'm not trying to make anyone mad, I'm just giving another viewpoint and I could be way off base. The internet is a cold medium. Sometimes it is hard to get things across to people in the way you really want to. That being said.....

Several things lead to my "obesity". I am the only obese member of my family. My sister and I were raised in the same house with the same parents and from childhood I was the chubby one and my sister was the skinny one. Genetics.....somewhat. Overeating ...mainly! I have eaten emotionally since childhood as well, and there wasn't much exercise involved. That is pretty much it. I'm sure convienence foods have alot to do with it too.

I think eating a high protein, low carb diet is pretty much the way out, and I intend to do it for life.

Whitney

[levi]

come on, folks! why are YOU so ignorant and intolerant??

once again, it is not my aim to accuse someone for his or her body it is just that i (yes, one of the guys some of you point with your finger at and say "oh no, look at this conceited drug-fed a**hole over there what does he think who he is?") really want to know something about the reasons why north-americans tend to be either super-fit or super-obese in comparison to europeans who are normally - well - more in between of these two extremes.

sorry that my avatar may arouse feelings of being a super-loser, but if a lean person is not allowed to ask not-lean persons why they are obese, this is a sad thing.

everyone can ask me whatever he wants as long it is not offensive and i think this is the way we should cooperate with each other - just by telling every lean person asking unconfortabe questions to shut up and leave your forum you will never find acceptence in public.

so thanks to those who tried to answer my question and uuuh good bye to those i have offended by asking why you play in the triple-digits-league i wnt dae to ask you such terrible things again.

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by levi
i really am curious to know how it could happen that you end up 300+ lbs as a male or 200+ as a female.

A combination of low fat / low calorie dieting and excessive cardio, severe hypoglycemia and a little insulin resistance had me up to over 241 lbs. I dieted myself fat - it took a few years, it was very frustrating and not much fun.

You'll find mine is a pretty common answer.

As Raz suggested, read Adiposity 101 - it's a real eye opener.

Nat

[missbetsy]

I really identify with what Nat said. For me, when I was a kid I ates tons of sugar daily and was active and did not have a weight problem. This may have been the beginning of the problems that would lead to my current health struggle. As I got older I started to fight the weight and starve myself. The short version is that eventually, my husband realized that something was wrong after we were married. I had ended up with insulin resistance and PCOS. Once I became insulin resistant, the weight had piled on and no amount of dieting with carbs was going to help me. I am lucky to have a name or label for what happened to me. But it is my responsibility to take control of the insulin resistance / PCOS and the dietary changes that I have to make. The down side of this struggle is that my body demands sugar, and I have to fight it every day. I'm guessing that an inordinate amount of people on this sight also have insulin reistance and, according to studies, 20% of the female population alone has PCOS which goes hand in hand with insulin resistance (hence obesity). Certain trends towards medical problems run among cultural and regional populations, and this may be part of the explanation you are looking for.

[Talon]

As an obese person, I am not offended by this question. I think it is something, while uncomfortable, we need to ask ourselves. Is it genetics? Yo-Yo dieting? Emotional Eating? All of the above? Something else?

For me, I think it is a combination. Eating carbs makes me hungrier and craving more carbs, then my body says "Oh boy, give me more still!" and I did. For me carbohydrates are the enemy, they take away some of the self control I didn't think I had, but actually do. Then there is the "high" you get off eating sugar, and when you are down, you want to medicate yourself to feel better - eating a candy bar.

My family is prone to high blood pressure, insulin problems and being overweight. Fortunately for me, I've found my solution/savior - lowered carbohydrate eating. I feel satisfied when full, I don't crave things when I am not hungry. I also don't feel the need anymore to "clean my plate" for all those starving children. How is my overeating going to help starving children?

I think another poster hit another nail on the head - carbohydrate rich foods are cheaper, and easier - and more widely acceptable as "healthy" foods.

Dr Atkins was the start of my healing, fighting those ingrained behaviors and thoughts is all me - and is as individualistic as each of us. Each of us has our genetic makeup, each has their own emotional responses. Some have no emotional eating problems, which is wonderful! Some of us do, and it is up to each of us as individuals to find out what makes ourselves tick.

[Atrsy]

I am not offended by this question, because I sometimes wonder the same thing. I can also agree with the person who said that lower income folks tend to be larger because of the less expensive foods that are very filling (pasta and potatoes). Also advertising in the USA is geared toward cars, junk food, and prescription drugs!

I am sometimes amazed at the girth on the majority of people I see when I'm out. In fact, one year at a fair, my neice and I sat and watched people walk by and we tried to count those who were overweight. It got to the point that if they were not huge, we didn't count them because overweight seemed to be normal!

I was raised in a PA Dutch area (German decent) and those people really eat the stick to the ribs diet. It really surprises me to hear that Germans aren't overweight, too. I always thought it was the cooking that made most of the people in my area overweight.

As for me, I wasn't really that much overweight until I had children. Before that, I averaged 150 lbs. I went up a little with the first two babies, but was about 175 when I got pregnant with my 3rd child when I was 40 years old. It has changed my whole body and I still weight almost what I weighed when I delivered him.

As Nat said, dieting made things much worse. The more I dieted, the fatter I got. I have gotten myself into a situation where it is almost impossible for me to lose weight. This will take time to remedy, but that's why I'm here

Carol

[Lessara]

I don't mind either.

I was actually a thin kid, a thin hyeractive kid. I ran, jumped, swimmed... everything. My mother told me it was hard to keep me in the house. But then in high school, I was misdiagnosed with a joint disorder and both my legs were in casts from my ankles to the tops of my thighs. Afterwards I was told no exercise or my conditioned would be worse. Imagine how bored I was! :rolleyes:
Now understand growing up, my parents put food on my plate and I had to eat it all or else.
Well, I kept eating all my food, but now I had no way of getting rid of the calories. I went from 140 to 240 in two years.
Then I had children.. and pretty soon 300. Exercise, something I loved had become a stranger. :(
Its hard to believe I loved the outdoors like I did.
Hmmm... makes me miss the ocean... swimming was my favorite sport.

[lilwannabe]

This question does not offend me...I think it is a good question. I think I am pretty self-aware...I am obese...that is a fact.

My weight problem started as a child...I was sexually abused, and think that that started it. My mother had me on diets since I was about 7 ...so yo-yo-ing has been a big part of my whole life...

I was never really overly fat until after I turned 30...I was chunky, but not near like I am now...but my depression, and anxiety didn't start until after I was 30 either...I believe it is all tied together...I have tried to stuff my feelings for many years now...I have been afraid to speak up or out when I did not like something, for fear that my opinion doesn't count. I still struggle with this daily...I am afraid people think I am stupid. I am always thinking that I don't have the answers, or because someone else has a different idea on what is right, then I must be wrong. I feel paronoid (sp) that people think I am a waste of space. I think I have let my mom down as she seems more interested in what her husbands family is doing than mine. My father has been absent almost all my life...he chose not to have a relationship with me. My step-father, who is now dead, was very mentally abusive...telling me almost daily what a loser I was...And never once in 20 years ever held me, or told me he loved me. My husband is constantly never satisfied with my small goals. He is always pushing for perfection..(maybe not..but that's how it feels sometimes)...these things all add up to me, not being good enough...food would help me feel better...even if it lasted only a few minutes...The minute I feel like crying...I want to run to sugar. I have a hard time finding things about myself that I like...And all the negative self talk ...well I could go on and on...(apparently I have)

I have been in counselling for a while now to help me deal with these issues...I have read book, watched programs on TV...I pray..and I come here often...these things all help me...I hope to overcome. I want to live happy...and I want to be healthy...

Sorry to have gone on and on...but these are some of the reasons that I have become so obese...

[fridayeyes]

I do think Levi worded his question poorly, which may or may not be a result of his native language not being English. This information - how various people came to the weights they are currently at - is also available in a number of threads with pretty evident titles, so he could also have looked there first.

There is, however, an underlying assumption in his post that I find amusing for the stereotype on which it relies. He posted in triple digits, therefore assuming that the people he was talking to had at least 100 lbs to lose. He then tags the audience for his question as "200+ for a female". The presupposition here is that a 'healthy' female weighs about 100 lbs. And to add further interest, he seems to think that if you're male, you can weigh about 100 lbs more before he considers you 'obese'.

*Friday does the diva snap*

Honey, I got one thing to say to that: My LBM alone is 128 lbs. Put that in your heroin chic and smoke it. :D

What vital organs would you like me to give up to suit your feminine ideal? My liver? How about my brain?

Cheers,

Friday

P.S. Sometimes enlightenment comes through gentle and patient education. Sometimes enlightenment comes through the sudden whack of the shinai. I'm much more in the shinai mood today. :)

[alice 2002]

Question for you Levi... why have you joined this web site? Are you or have you been obese? I am curious, as to how you became overweight?

If the picture you attached is yours, you have a nice body...and should take care of it.

We are all trying to take care of ourselves, regardless of where we came from and what got us to this place.

I know how I got here, and I am grateful that I have found such supportive and loving people..

I hope you find what you are looking for.

[Lisa in MD]

we're all supposed to be blue-eyed blondes as well? I guess I'm offended because no one would walk up to anyone on the street and ask this question. Well, no one that has any semblance of manners, so why is it okay to ask this question here? Because there's no face-to-face contact? I'm sure that your question could've been researched without asking such a loaded, personal question.

[levi]

~alice:
i joinéd this board because i am low-carbing for nearly two years now and i am searching for an appropriate way to switch from a ckd to an easier to follow regimen like zone or isocaloric - this is why i entered this board.

thank you for your cheer-up on my body - do NOT think everybody admires you for looking lean and fit - there are always a lot of jealous people or those who say it is all up to your bodybuilding-drugs-use (this point normally comes from guys with a cigarette in one and a bottle of beer in the other hand).

apart from that the problems stay the same even when you are lean - you still MUST be careful with exercising and dieting, resting, sleeping, not overtraining etc.

~fridayeyes:

you are right with your point on english not being my first language; although i think i know the gist of english grammar and vocabulary that does NOT automatically imply that i choose the right way to say what i want without offending people from another country who may have other rules of politeness than my own, for example not being too straight with your words.

BTW, i took 200 lbs for a woman and 300 lbs for men cause i think the average male is taller and more muscular than the average female.

for sure, if you are a female with a height of 5`10`` or so then 200 lbs do absolutly not mean you are overly obese.

i simply posted this question in the tripledigits club because i thought i could meet a lot of persons who can give me an answer to my question there and to be honest i didnt think a lot about 200 / 300 lbs - i took them because they are round numbers (could as well be 100 / 150 kg).

~all others:

thank you very much for your honest answers, they are very well appreciated, i now can partly understand the problem, esp. the combination of insulin-problems and wrong nutritional education in childhood makes perfect sense to me.

[Lisa in MD]

But still obese, huh? :thdown: I doubt most would agree with that....

[fridayeyes]

Hi, Levi,

Having dispensed with the shinai, I can now proffer the other mode of enlightenment. :)

Your post violated two basic tenets of politeness: familiarity and tact.

Familiarity is the idea that the better you know someone, the more personal the questions you may ask without offending.

Tact is the ability to know what is likely to be offensive or provocative and to choose your words so as to present the most benign interpretation.

When familiarity is low, tact must be high or offense is given.

Think for a moment about why you capitalized the word SO in the title of your post. Did you have suspicions that it might offend? If so, why did you do it anyway, and are you really surprised at the reactions you got?

A better title might have been: What do you think is behind your weight problem? Or, to make the question even less individually personal: Why do people gain weight?

Another general rule of politeness: Assuming you do care about having given offense, it is considered 'gentlemanly' to apologize, even if the offense was unintended or accidental. *wink*

Cheers,

Friday

[nawchem]

Hi Levi,
I'm taking a weight management course right now and they say the American culture is fattening. We drive everywhere, we eat fast food, and we watch a lot of tv.

At my church they have donuts, chocolate and cookies every Sunday. At my work they supply food for us. There are big candy bowls by the copier. Bowls of tortilla chips and m&ms sitting around. Our lunchroom has almost every candy bar, chip, cracker and soda available. We usually have pizza, mexican food, American Chinese and sandwiches. Human resources did a study and the junkfood was found to be the #1 perk that kept people at a company. We joke that you gain 10lbs as soon as you join the company.

Since I've been lowcarbing I've discovered that there are many other choices but I grew up loving junkfood and fast food and probably would never have changed if I hadn't started gaining weight.


Nancy

[Soinwi]

YOU GO GIRL!!!!

You can count me in the beatings!!! I am 5ft 11 and at 200lbs I wear a size 14 and think I look DAMN GOOD!!! No I will never be stick skinny but I have nuscle and I love my body STRONG AND HEALTHY!!!!!

Sonja :D

[plum]

How did I get up to (pre- Atkins) 228 lbs ?

I feel very strongly about this, because other people are at this minute going through it, and I would like to prevent it happening to them.

High - carbohydrate diets, low fat diets, all promoted by my doctors.And 1,500 calories a day( supervised by GP) while I was pregnant left me with a gain of 3 stone or so.

A glucose tolerance test ... showing what I know now to be reactive hypoglycaemia.... and my doctor scratching his head, saying "well, its highly abnormal. But its not actually diabetes so thats ok"

yes thats the honest truth as to why I got fat. I didnt cheat on my high carb diet, I have terrific willpower. But I was despairing as to why I felt so low., and how I slowly gained.

Now I want to lose fat and change the mind - set of UK doctors.

[Victoria]

Levi,
I think the people on this forum have been incredibly kind and helpful to you even tho you have phrased your question in an unkind way. As fridayeyes has stated very nicely, you could have said it much more tactfully. Assuming you have good intentions in asking your question, plenty of folks have answered very succinctly. If you were "obese" yourself, then it would not have been offensive. Then it would be one person with similiar experiences asking others what their experiences have been. But since you have never really had this type of weight problem, it comes off as extremely insensitive. Or then again, it could just be HOW you phrased it. :( Victoria

[Danyele]

hi,

I'm not obese, i actually have quite a bit of muscle for my size. nevertheless, my weight gain was caused by 2 years of anorexia, using Hydroxycut and exercising 2 hours almost every day. I was going to university full time and working on my feet 8 hours a day. I exhausted my adrenals which in turn caused my hypothyroidism. I would do cardio 5 days a week and play soccer 2 days a week(competitive) and still gain weight. My brother who is a competitive natural bodybuilder even helped me with my diet and exercise plan but nothing worked. Went to the doctor and he told me the weight gain was muscle and I knew otherwise. Had my thyroid checked and it was off then a year later went to a doctor who has now prescribed the Diane pill for PCOS symptoms.
My body went into starvation mode and my metabolism got screwed. I was planning on doing a fitness competition within the next few years but that will have to wait another year or two til I'm back to normal, hopefully. ANyways, that's how i gained weight.

Danyele

[lupine]

I think this is a very complex issue and there are really no simple answers to why we are seeing the kinds of body size changes here in North America. I am a cultural anthropologist so I try to look at things cross-culturally and holistically. There is the "thrifty gene" theory. Some humans may be more biologically programmed to store energy reserves (fat) and for most of our hominid history this has been a good thing. It was likely in our genes but didn't show up until we had the right social context--abundance of fast energy foods, more and more automation, different reproductive patterns, etc. North Americans in particular have cultural notions of beauty that are absolutely unobtainable for most people. This creates feelings of inadequancy and self-doubt--perfect breeding grounds for psychological pain which may lead to unhealthy eating habits. North Americans are just incredible consumers in every way--cars, food, fashion, automation. There are major differences in daily life between Europe and the US and I think we are seeing this in the comparative numbers of large people.

[tofi]

If you click on the Profile Icon below Levi's posts, it says in the biobgraphy slot that he once weighed 251 pounds at his highest. So we could ask how he got that fat. It must be that, at that weight, he decided to try to do something about it - just like all of us here.

I note also that he only has 5% body fat. Seems to me that is somewhat low for healthy functioning. But his object seems to be muscle building and body sculpting, so health may not matter at the present. I wonder what will happen in later years?

I agree that the original post was very rude for a new member to make. He may be interested in ketogenic diets but it was unkind and projected scorn for people over those weights rather than honest interest.

JMHO



:wave:

[wangeci]

Levi,

I have always been extremely large boned, at the age of 16 and wearing an American Junior size 9/10 and at the height of 5'8.5", I was still larger then most people in school but very slim at 176 lbs (to most that is heavy, but I could not be skinnier because of my bones). When I was 25 I snapped my achilles tendon in volleyball and slowed down very much. Then at the age of 28 was diagnosed with Pulmonary Hypertension (a lung disease) I could not walk up a flight of stairs without collapsing. So, the charts call me obese at 217 lbs, however, I do not feel I look obese, however, I have one hell of a time trying to get my weight off, since I cannot exercise like most people. When I was young, I ran miles and miles and lifted many weights to be at 176 and slim. So, that is why on the charts I am "obese", however, I believe I am over weight, yet not obese.

I am not offended by your question. I wish more people who have never been overweight or obese, could be in our shoes and know what it feels like.

Cindy :wave:

[Lisa N]

Levi...

I'm not sure that your assessment of the obesity rates between the US and Germany are terribly accurate. Check this link for the actual statistics: http://www.iuns.org/features/obesity/obesity.htm
If you look closely at the obesity rates of the US compared to those in Germany, you should notice that they are actually quite close numbers-wise. You should also note that obesity rates are climbing at alarming rates in both the US and in Europe in general.
FYI...the US doesn't hold the record for the highest percentage of overweight individuals...Urban Samoa has that dubious honor with 75% of it's population at obese weights.

As for your question as to how people get 100+ pounds over their healthy weights (I won't say "ideal" because healthy weights are as individual as people are), I think will find as many different answers as there are people in that classification. Many of them got there by following what they believed was good advice from their doctors: eat low fat, high carb. Some got to those alarming weights by taking prescription drugs for other medical problems which case weight gain as a side-effect. Still others arrived in the land of obesity through overeating and underexercising for a host of reasons, both physical and emotional; the more overweight you get, the less active you tend to be, so it becomes a vicious cycle. Many others will tell you that they honestly don't know (and they really don't) and that everything that they have tried has only resulted in their gaining still more weight.

Most people who are overweight aren't that way because they WANT to be, but rather because they can't find any solution that works and if you don't think people are looking for a solution, take a hard look at all the diets and diet products on the market. They wouldn't be there if people weren't buying them and people wouldn't be buying them if they weren't trying to lose weight.

It's time that we stopped thinking of and treating those who are overweight as if they have some sort of moral shortcoming and that their obesity is somehow all their fault and theirs alone and started realizing that at the heart of it is often a medical condition that has long gone unrecognized and treated poorly, if at all. The overweight are not morally deficient or gluttons; most of them have a disease called insulin resistance. Well-meaning doctors have told the overweight for decades "eat less and you'll lose weight" or "cut back on the fat and you'll lose weight" and then blamed the poor patient who faithfully followed that advice for getting fatter, made them feel it was "their fault" for not "being serious about losing weight" and sent them home to hang their heads in shame and frustration when it should have been the doctor hanging his (or her) head in shame for failing to recognize and treat the real problem. I have PCOS and was told by an internist that my only problem was what he termed "overactive hand to mouth syndrome" when, in fact, I was consuming 1,200 calories a day on a regular basis. He never did any tests. He just looked at my fat body and assumed that I was gluttonous.

It's hard to understand or even comprehend the prejudice and emotional abuse that the obese suffer at the hands of the ignorant and often even at the hands of those who love them if you've never been there yourself, but please understand that underneath that layer of fat is often a hurting person who has some very raw emotions about the subject and don't be surprised when you see those emotions coming out when you ask them how they got that way. It's comparable to asking a terminal cancer patient what they did to give themselves cancer.

[Mae West]

Hi Levi,

Add me to the list of lowcarbers who aren't offended by your question. Actually, I have read the same question before, on another low carb newsgroup, from a lady who was from England(?) or was it France(?)

(Actually, she was quite a bit more tactful, but I'm assuming you've been taking notes from the "Tact 101" professors who have been replying to your question, and you'll do a lot better next time. Right?)

Anyway, the other lady also mentioned that it seemed to her she saw quite a few more severely overweight people when she visited the States, than she ever did in her native country.

I believe the medical community and U.S.Federally funded nutritionists have done a vast disservice to the people of the United States.

About 20 years ago they began insisting that the only correct diet for almost any disorder was low-fat. They worked in earnest to overhaul the "4 Food Group" plan, in favor of the "Food Pyramid" which almost eliminated fat and protein from an entire nation's diet.

As a result, heart-disease, diabetes, and obesity are now epidemic in the U.S... while in France, the population is still continuing to eat as much fatty meats, and butter, and rich creams, and sauces, and creme-filled pastries as they wish-- and not jogging or doing aerobics like their American counterparts-- but heart disease, diabetes, and obesity are relatively rare.

The U.S. medical community is mystified by what they call "The French Paradox," and can't figure out how the French can continue to be so healthy while eating such "unhealthy" foods. Some have speculated that it has something to do with the "healthy effects" of drinking the French wine.

Very few in the American medical community dare to speculate that a *healthy* *balanced* diet which also consists of a sufficient amount of *fat* and *protein* could actually be the answer!

Little by little, the medical community seems to be coming around now, and admitting that low-fat is not the answer.

Unfortunately, it's too late for many, many people who trusted their doctor's advice, and became fat and unhealthy while eating whole pans of brownies because they were "fat-free" and "allowed" on their low-fat diet!

I'm sure this is not the entire answer to your question, but I believe it's a big part of the problem.

By the way, congratulations on your own success with low carbing!

Mae West
"Why don't you come up and visit me sometime when I've got nothing on but the radio?" The other Mae West

[disneybebe]

Hey Levi,

Wow, wow, wow!! U look awesome :thup: :daze: :spin: :roll:

A few months ago, my friend (he lives in LA) & I had an interesting chat about this subject.

In my humble opinion, I think that Americans are getting bigger because of all those brilliant TV shows!!

I mean ER, The Sopranoes, Friends, Ally McBeal......... (I could go on & on.)

With shows that good, everyone just spends hours & hours in front of the TV, and the weight can pile on very easily. Don't forget that a lot of people tend to snack when watching TV. I have to have nuts when I'm watching soccer, darn habit :rolleyes:

On a more serious note.......
I think it's wrong that they advertise stuff like Kelloggs' pop-tarts, Frosties...... as healthy foods.
I also think that the "typical" food-pyramid are making people bigger & bigger, and less healthy as well. :rolleyes:

HK people are getting bigger, too.

Take care.

Bebe :wave:

[razzle]

whoever mentioned genes...

the research in the Human Genome project is ongoing. So far, I read this year, over thirty seperate genes have been implicated in obesity (in fact, how fat we are may just be a matter of how many of these we got!)

An older (and so shorter) list of those genes is available at:

http://www.cdc.gov/genomics/info/perspectives/files/obesdisord.htm

[MrFrumble]

As a first generation German who spent time living in Germany as a child I think I can put some of this in perspective.

1. There is intense pressure in Germany to conform and follow the rules. Being fat is a major sin and will bring about all sorts of abuse and very overt condemnation, much worse than what is found in the states. Usually in the U.S. the merciless teasing abates after High School, in Germany it never ever ends. The only acceptable obese person in Germany is an elderly man, kinda like Schultz from Hogan's Hero's. I think Levi, that many of the very obese "Do the right thing" and stay out of the public eye, or commit suicide.

2. Europe has free medical care. In the U.S. many of the very obese are low-income and therefore have no health insurance therefore they get no care, none, nada, zilch.

3. Most German schools are much more physical education minded. Many American schools have completly removed these programs from the curriculem. (To save money). Yes it's true, it's all about the dollar in America.

4. If I remember correctly the Germans have one big meal a day at lunchtime, this was the hot cooked meal of the day were all the carbs are. Plenty of time to burn em off. Dinner is usually cold cuts and high grain breads. There's no Wonderbread in Germany!

5. Childrens TV in europe is much more responsible. No commercials till the end of the show and the pushing of carb-filled suger treats much less intense. (All about the money)

6. I was hard pressed to find Potato or Corn Chips until the 80's in Germany. God I hated that, though the peanut butter cheese puffs were pretty damm good.

7. Much less processed foods in Europe. I think Europe is catching up though.

Here's me in 1972 in my lederhosen. My parents thought I had a weight problem! I do now.

http://www.slotventure.com/ebay/lederhose.jpg

[levi]

~mrfrumble: yes, some very good points that you mention, think you are mostly right.

~the lady who asked why i once went up to 251 lbs:

this was during a bulking-up bodybuilding-cycle, which means "built as much muscle as you can and dont care about fat for , say 3-6 months".
even at 250 i was not over 20 % bf (yes I would call 20 % for a male, especially for my own person, much too fat, but thats not the way you look upon 20 % i think).

~all that feel discriminated by this posting:

once and for all, i didnt intend to flame you, if i did so unintentionally i apologize for it.

~the lady who thinks she would be slim at 200 lbs:
well, unless you are a very serious strengh athlete with lots of muscles i and i think every physician disagrees with you on that point. even at 5`10`` 200 lbs is not normal weight, not even to mention lean. (just in case you like to know my definition of normal and lean for women and men: women: normal:20-25% bf, lean: below 20%; men: normal:15-20%, lean: below 15%, preferably below 10%).

[Misty]

Being a newbie to this board myself, I understand that sometimes it takes a little lurking to get the feel for the board. I've visited several message boards and some have a harsher tone than others. Perhaps that why Levi posed the original question as he did.
Everyone here has their personal stories as to why they become obese. I'm sure my reason for gaining weight is much different than someone elses. I don't think he's going to find a general answer as to why we gain weight as a whole. The point is, we're all trying to do something about it and that's why we're here. Since we're all here for the same reason to get fit, lose weight and learn more, maybe we should be asking Levi how he became so fit. Perhaps he could help US out. Which one of us wouldn't want be that fit? I know I have a couple questions for him.
He's here to educate himself just as the rest of us are. I'd like to give him a warm welcome. Just as you all did when I joined.
I really think Levi will be able to teach us a lot and give us some great advice that perhaps we've never come across before. Let's give him a chance. He would like to learn more about low-carbing and I think there are some really knowledgable people here that can teach him a lot.
Welcome Levi, I hope you enjoy this message board.

[hjackson]

I have to admit, when I first read the topic header, it did hurt my feelings a little bit. However, I think a huge key to the difference in attitudes lies in the cultural differences. As it has been pointed out, in Germany, obese people are even more stigmatized than they are here. There's more of a focus on physical health...according to some of my German classes, nearly everyone belongs to a sports club of sorts. So, if Levi is coming out of a culture that puts much higher pressure on obese people to conform, its much harder for him to realise how much it could have offended people to ask so personal a question.
Not only that, I think we have an overwhelming attitude here in the States that it is unacceptable to step on people's toes and risk hurting feelings. This is polical correctness gone haywire, and I think we've seen now what happens in a culture where its a major sin to accidentally offend.

I think we all need to relax, and while I agree there could have been better, more tactful ways to obtain the same information, I certainly think we shouldn't stone him over it. Besides...look at how tight everything is in that picture... with my luck, everything would bounce off that hard body and pelt us instead.
;)

[levi]

~misty:

thanks for your nice posting; as i said before you can ask me everything (connected with dieting and sports) and i`ll try to give you good advice.

being low-carb for nearly 2 years straight and weightlifting for 10 years i think i know my stuff to a good degree, so just fel free to ask.

[Bonnie]

I am pleased to see the postive responses here... I too have been on boards where the poster has been driven off because of harsh responses and I don't think anyone wants to see that happen here...I suspect we can all learn something beneficial from most posts presented on this forum...

Bonnie

[Lisa in MD]

I must say I wonder about the motives of Levi and maybe it is a cultural thing, but if he knows so much about nutrition, bodybuilding, etc., he should already know how people get obese/fat. Even if I had a buff body, I wouldn't feel the need to pose in my speedo bathing suit and use it in an area where people are OBVIOUSLY having a hard time losing weight for whatever reason. I don't think being considerate of others, etc., can be lumped into "overt PCness". It's something I consider common courtesy that was taught to me as a child.

Just my opinion for what it's worth and sorry, but I'm not drooling over the hardbody, however, the NY Firefighters Bare-Chested calendar is now available. That, I can enjoy the aesthetic pleasures of.....

[rtjdk2]

I dont mind answering this question.. I was pretty much small most of my life and then out of the blue i gained some weight when i got a job sitting in a sewing factory... went from being active to non active.. did manage to loose the weight back down by just watching what i was eating and exercising.. kept it off pretty much.. till i become pregnant with my first.. and developed gestational diabeties.. and boom the weight kept coming on when i was pregnant.. after my first son was born i stabilized at 174... big jump from the 112 i use to be... then with son number 2 i gained only 40 lbs to loose back down to 174 again after he was born... then decided to quit smoking a few years later to hit a whopping 210 lbs... shewww.. lost a few lbs down to 196 where i kinda stabilized for a while.. until one day i had had enough of not being able to walk, run or do what i wanted with out being give out and having a hard time breathing... then i decided to start atkins and found a new way of eating.. and now im happpy to say im down 38 lbs and over 22 inches smaller.. feeling great... im still plump but feel so much healthier....

THere are many different reasons why we have gained weight.. But we all here have one thing in common we are doing something about it... and support each other while we are doing it.. Which i think is great...

Your friend
Tammy

[Natrushka]

Bonnie, hjackson and Misty I think you've all hit the nail on the head. Levi's question, while not the most tactful, was an honest one. He has appologized for the offence he has given. We should be polite enough to accept that at face value.

Every one of us brings something to this forum; how we feel about a certain issue, what we have experienced, what we expect to gain by being here - this is evident in how we reply to, and in the questions, we ask.

We certainly all know a lot more about each other now.
Nat

[Bonnie]

Originally posted by Natrushka
Bonnie, hjackson and Misty I think you've all hit the nail on the head. Levi's question, while not the most tactful, was an honest one. He has appologized for the offence he has given. We should be polite enough to accept that at face value.

Every one of us brings something to this forum; how we feel about a certain issue, what we have experienced, what we expect to gain by being here - this is evident in how we reply to, and in the questions, we ask.

We certainly all know a lot more about each other now.
Nat


Well said, Nat :thup:

Bonnie

[Lisa in MD]

That's a great post Lisa. Thanks!

[fridayeyes]

For Levi-

This is a repeat of one of my posts from earlier to save me having to type it over. Incidentally, my hands still shake talking about this as I guess I haven't really before. *weak smile*
___________

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47340&pagenumber=2

(links save so much space)
_______

So, what's different now? Well, for one, I'm 'safe'. I'm married to a wonderful man who loves me no matter what size I am. I don't have to face the dating world anymore. Frankly, I don't know what I would do if I did. Kind of makes the life of the eccentric spinster with 28 cats look attractive! :)

[garrison]

I got married! :D

(And got on birth control...started cooking the high-carb foods that HE likes...and went into "celebration" mode for about a year where I ate anything I darned well pleased!)

[levi]

~ lisa in md:

oh i would be curious to know what you really think - as i said several times before i CAN stand any kind of comment or criticism so feel free to put your feelings in words an let us all know what you think of my statements.

BTW. trainerdan has alo got an avatar where hes only wearing shorts so i dont see why i shouldnt post a picture of my physique - well in the end this is what we are talking about, right?!

[fridayeyes]

Personally, I pretty much take ppl at face value, even online (I guess that would be type-face value :) ). I mean, there's no way we can really know whether or not someone is representing themselves honestly or not, so my default is to believe them until I see evidence not to. Also, Levi has posts in CKD that pretty much indicate he knows a little something about body building. :)

Cheers,

Friday

[Lisa in MD]

I will say that I've never, in my life, understood someone who thought that they should post their mostly naked body anywhere. Again, I'm probably a couple generations behind you in my upbringing (raised by my grandparents) so I believe I have a whole different outlook on looks, etc. If being overweight weren't so darn unhealthy, I wouldn't care about it. Thin, fat, doesn't matter, never had any problem attracting male attention when I wanted it and I do attribute that to my upbringing and the no-nonsense (depression area) attention or lack of attention that looks were paid.

What you did, who you were, how you treated other people and not considering anyone below you and realizing that there's some things you shouldn't ask and if you really feel the need to do so, you better learn to do it in the nicest way possible were the things I was taught. I would rather speak the truth or not say anything in most situations. I believe that you would find me, uh, brutally honest when the situation warrants it and smart enough to know when not to say something just because I WANT to say it or because I'm THINKING it.

I just added something to the Lighter Side about the death of common sense and I guess this entire topic has gotten my dander up and it's time for me to realize I don't really have anything to add to this and it appears I might be trying to provoke you & that really wasn't my intent. Just because I KNOW better doesn't mean, even at 40, I always practice what I was taught ;)

[TRiggs]

Your hubby is one lucky guy, you are a beautiful woman!

[pegm]

I, also, was not offended by Levi's question because I have asked myself the same thing. In my case, it was a combination of factors. I became overweight as a child after a very long series of illnesses that made physical activity prohibited. In college I 'dieted' -- often going to bed early so I would not feel the hunger pangs and got down to an acceptable weight. I married and a couple of years later the weight began to creep back. When I was pregnant with my first child, surprisingly, I gained very little weight with the pregnancy and was more slim after my daugther's birth! I continued to lose weight by eating very little -- often it would be 9:00 at night and I would realize that I had not eaten yet. I also was a very heavy smoker -- sometimes 3 or 4 packs a day! I suppose I was pretty close to being anorexic -- I was 5'7" and weighed 119 pounds.

I stayed at that weight for 3 years until I became pregnant again. That pregnancy was totally different! I just kept gaining and gaining weight -- the less I ate, the more I gained until I had gained 50 pounds! It took 2 years of struggling to get back down to a reasonable weight after the birth of my second daughter. Things went along quite well for a few years -- I stayed at home with the children, grew a huge garden which I tended by hand, canned and froze most of our foods and made everything from scratch -- no processed foods. My children did not know what potato chips or Twinkies were until they started grade school and saw what the other kids had in their lunches! McDonalds was a VERY RARE treat -- maybe twice a year.

Then I quit smoking, and the weight started to creep up again. I also started working outside the home and lack of time made me turn to pre-packaged convenience foods (pastas, pizza, etc.) In an effort to keep the weight down, I did what the medical profession told me to do. I ate things like chopped veggies mixed with non-fat yogurt on pita bread, etc. I also started walking -- about 5 miles a day at 4 mph. But the weight just kept creeping up. When I asked my doctor why, she told me that I was probably gaining muscle from so much walking. And the weight creept up some more. Doctors just told me to eat less and exercise more -- eat less fats, more carbs, etc., all of which made me gain even more.

Then, my life became so frantic that I quit exercising all together. My 16 year old daughter had a baby, and my husband and I had to raise him (he is now 8 years old). My mother has Huntington's Disease and my father needed help caring for her. So, every day after work I would go home, take care of my grandson, and after he was in bed, go to my parents to help care for my mother, come home, go to bed, and start over again the next day. I was too exhausted and too pressed for time to even think about exercise, so, the pounds really started to pile on then! I even started smoking again after 11 years in an attempt to stop the weight gain and de-stress! Finally, age 50 was a turning point for me. I found a program that would provide care for my mother, quit smoking, and started low carbing.

It has been over a year now since I began this WOL -- I exercise 6 or 7 days per week and eat right. The weight is not really coming off the way I hoped -- only lost 25 pounds in 13 months and I've been stalled at the same weight for several months. My doctor told me last week that I 'have a metabolic disorder' and the only way I will lose weight is to eat only 500 calories a day! I truely hope he is wrong about that!

Well, that's my story -- so how did I get so obese? I guess that, just like most others here it was a combination -- lack of exercise, processed carb foods, genetics, etc.

[garrison]

TRiggs: I haven't been complimented like that since before I got married! :blush: You just made my day!

[Lisa in MD]

Of course, I also believe that we women don't compliment one another as much as we should, so let me echo the compliment you've been given. You are a very attractive woman! I think that if I write something like that people might think I'm hitting on them so I don't do it. Hmmm, does that make me homophobic? :D

[garrison]

I agree totally about the compliment thing...in fact, I believe that we ALL need to develop a healthy lifestyle of complimenting and encouraging one another...not just for appearances, but for all of the qualities/talents/skills we have.

I believe God gave us minds and mouths to be used with purpose. There is no sense in tearing others down with our words... We have such powerful tools right in our mouths, you know?

I'm sure many of us can relate to being made fun of as youths when our peers were all the "perfect weight" and we were chosen last for all of those sports events while growing up.

My mother taught me that it's easier to overcome evil by doing good and sometimes we just have to "kill people with kindness" instead of lashing out. (Easier said than done.)

So let me applaud you, Lisa...for holding your tongue in this most precarious thread. (In fact, it's getting so heated in here that I think I might just duck out for good!)

[Lisa in MD]

My hubby says it's one of the things he really likes about me...I'm spicy. :devil: Of course, I'm sure there have been occasions where he wishes he could cool it off a little bit. :D Like when we're driving into the city and it seems to be "Idiots Day Out" because, with the windows up I don't mind saying what I think of the nuts on the road :eek:

I think one of the major things for me is not saying something that there's nothing that can be done...as a stupid example, telling someone they have a run in their stockings because what are they going to do? No point in pointing it out to them because I truly believe doing stuff like that is done for no purpose other than making the person pointing it out feel superior. There is no point in telling someone something that they can't do anything about. Bad example, but I'm just remembering my sister pointing it out to SIL at a family function. My sister hasn't learned the finer points of tact and she is one who doesn't believe that just because you THINK it doesn't mean you should SAY it. I'm thinking she's getting a bit long in the tooth not to realize that, but maybe someday.

[tamarian]

Folks,

Unfortunately I had to moderate a few posts here (removed). If you cannot debate without insults, then don't.

Instead of closing this thread, which turned out to be very intelligent and informative, we will simply moderate repeat offenders to preserve the dialogue from degenerating.

Wa'il

[fridayeyes]

Garrison

For the record, I think you're beautiful, too. Your pic reminds me of Kate Bush (the singer).

Cheers,

Friday

[AmberinIN]

Well Levi, I think you've asked a very good question.


I started out life thin, and went through high school thin, in fact, I was a female version of you! It's so sad when I look at my pictures then. I was into weights and Martial Arts was my life. Then I had my first child. Now, that in itself was not what made me obese. I spent the first five months of my pregnancy in Germany. I don't think that their diet was terribly different from mine at the time, but the low-fat diet industry is not in Europe as it is in the US. I gained a normal weight and had my daughter. Then I decided it was time to get dieting to lose the baby weight. I lost on a low fat, low carb diet. I didn't know it was low carb at the time and was lucky to get down to a decent weight before I became pregnant with my second child. Then the third child. In between my pregnancies, I did everything I knew to diet. It was all low fat. I figured I just wasn't trying hard enough. My fat intake per day was under 20 grams, and up to last year, I went down to 10 grams a day in desparation. I exercised 6 days a week for 45 minutes to 2 hours, even though I was dead tired. I starved for weeks and months doing what was the doctor's and nutritionist's and magazine's and health report's ideal diet. You know what happened. I gained weight. I gained and gained, until I was 224 lbs. I had honestly put all of my willpower and strength into it and failed.

This was February 15, 2002 when I decided that I was destined to be obese. Then, my mother came up to me and told me about low carb. I figured, well, I've done all the normal stuff, why not try this. I was very cynical. You see to the left that I lost about 60 lbs. My mother and I talked about our heritage (Our ancestors are from Southwestern Germany) and our diet when I was young, and you know what? We were all eating fairly low carb until we started reading about low-fat. I really believe our heritage is connected to our diets, and this has caused me to think about different diets and why we need to accept that not everyone can diet the same way. My husband is 6' and 150 lbs. He eats carbs from 5:30 in the morning until 9:00 at night. He never has a problem, in fact, he's lost a couple of times and had to gain back. His heritage is completely different from mine.

Anyway, my point in this is that I think America's problem is an overbearing, rich, aggressive diet industry. Who do you think got that whole food pyramid started? 6-8 servings of bread per day! 4-5 servings of fruit and vegetables. Vegetables yes, fruit??? I hate fruit, so I'm biased, however, fruit is terrible for me.

Anyway, I'll get off my soap box and let you read the other's opinions.


:wave: Amber

[Trainerdan]

Levi,

I feel that your question is brutally honest and blunt. There is a saying over here in America "A teaspoon of sugar makes the medicine go down." ... So, your questions was received wrong.

But, it did provoke a flurry of activity and response (emotional and otherwise), which DOES make it a good post. As others have covered, I think TACT is the key here, but seeing that your English (as good as it is) is not your first language, that is understandable.

I will add that I didn't enjoy being dragged into your defense. I agree that if you put in the work and dedication to change your body into what you want, then you have a right to show it.

BUT, my avatar is there because I was overweight at one point. Anyone who cares to read my story in the SUCCESS STORIES can see that. I like to think of my avatar as inspiration, but if it offends people, I will put my clothes on.

FWIW, swimming shorts and a SPEEDO (I actually thought they were posing trunks) are two different worlds, but, having been to Europe, I know that Speedos are the accepted norm in bathing wear. You won't catch me on here wearing anything smaller than what you see in the avatar I am currently using.

The bodybuilding subculture is hard to understand to those who aren't in that world, and 5% bodyfat is quite an achievement. I respect you for getting to it. But, it IS hard for those outside of "the game" to understand why someone would subject themselves to it. That is not meant to offend anyone here that is not into BB.

It is a two-way street. BBers can't be expected to impose THIER values on those who are not BBers. But those who are not BBers also should not condemn those who choose to pursue it. It is a personal decision. Done properly, bodybuilding can be a lifelong pursuit and part of a healthy active lifestyle. I know of a few 70 + men who work out at my gym, and I see them as inspiration. I HOPE I look as good as they do when I get there ...

Levi, I understand that in BB circles 251 at 20% is considered fat, BUT in medical standards 20% is normal for men, and is a fit level for women. I plan to see 250 when I bulk this autumn, and it may be hard for most to understand, but there IS evidence that supports the value of this to those who have the pursuit of gaining as much muscle mass as possible. My ULTIMATE goal is to be a lean 230 - 235 with 9% bodyfat, which I will then maintain.

Pointing fingers on a forum that IS a support forum for LC dieting may not have been a wise choice of action.

This discussion is a good one, and a few years ago, I would have been pissed too. BUT, I will say that it took someone close to me to insult me that got me into a mode where I wanted to change myself ... and I have never looked back.

SOOOOO ... to answer your question Levi, I gained my weight originally through the nasty combination of inactivity, fTV watchinng, lack of exercise, fast food/large portions served at restauraunts here, and weekend drinking binges. I also lay blame to the Amarillo Cheese Fries at Lone Star, which I would order woth DOUBLE dipping sauce. :shudders:

Americans have a close relationship to their automobiles, and drive most anywhere. When I visited Europe, the first thing I noticed (in Dublin) was the relative absence of overweight people. Then, I also noticed the large number of people using bicycles as a mode of transportation.

Could be a connection??

[Atkid]

Levi -


Why are you asking the question?


You are on a low carb forum.

Common sense would tell you that if we are all low carbing, we did not all get here through consuming too much protein.


If you are low carbing, then you know the effects of high carbing. You'll know what that does to people.

I think your question was mischevous and serves no informative purpose on the forum.

If I need to spell it out, I will.


We are the way we are through : High carbing, doctors telling us that we should eat less fat, exercising and poor diet meaning we see no results and then throw the towel in which means sitting around eating comfort high-carb food and gaining more weight, failure to understand the science of our bodies with doctors not too far behind us, repeated failures at weight loss and being catapulted up the scales.

If a male gets to 300 pounds, your question seems to imply that they have let themselves get there.

Do you think we choose to be this way? Maybe some of us don't notice the weight creeping on, but many of us have fought tooth and nail. I have.

I have battled for a number of years but the weight has beaten me. I have not reached this stage without a fight.

Your question implied that we consent to our situations. This is the narrow-minded view of the general public, promulgated by doctors. They tell us that is we just exercise more and eat low fat, the weight will disappear. If we do not, then we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

On a low carb forum, I cannot believe that this needs to be spelled out.

I think you do not need it spelled out. I think you knew precisely what you were doing when you asked the question.

Whatever your mother tongue, tact crosses all territories. Even if you said it badly, I think it is clear what you wanted to say.

A cursory glance at the website would have led you to links to answer your own question. So you are not that interested in the answer.

I think you were frankly being mean.

[Kristine]

I won't comment on Levi's original post: everyone else has sufficiently flamed. But I've really enjoyed people's points on why we (as a culture) are obese.

My perspective:

Look at all the things we do because we "have to:" pay the bills, drag ourselves out of bed early for work, change the kitty litter, brush our teeth... generally, we don't complain much about it (well, except for the kitty litter. :) ) We just DO it because we HAVE to. Sometimes we slack, but it doesn't pay off: paying your bills late results in paying extra in interest, showing up late for work will get you yelled at, not brushing your teeth feels crappy and leads to cavities and a diminished social life... :)

... so why is it so hard to make nutrition and fitness a priority? Because we can *get away with it*, sometimes for decades, with minimal consequences. Your boss doesn't really care if you gain weight, your dentist doesn't really care, your friends and family (hopefully!) don't care... if you're slowly gaining weight, there's little concequence in your day-to-day business.

The key to maintaining good health and fitness means making it a priority every day - like brushing your teeth and getting to work - because you feel you have no choice. And when you're new to it, it's a *huge* change that offers *no* immediate gratification. Working against your best efforts are the cacophony of junk food advertising and a sedentary lifestyle culture. It has to be the most difficult change one can voluntarily undergo.

...which is why so many of you inspire me. :)

[TeriDoodle]

Kristine, you've hit on a point that I'd like to elaborate on.

Levi's post was originally posted in the TDC. It offended them and many others, which doesn't surprise me one bit.

It hurts me to think that any member would be insensitive to another member, when we're all here just doing the very best we can. But this goes double for our friends in the TDC because I think of them as our true heroes and I am so very proud of each and every one of them...AND ALL OF US!!

This board is wonderful and we all know it. It amazes me every day. Please don't allow anyone to take away what we have all worked so hard to build, and we have every reason in the world to hold our heads very, very high.

[kodi10]

Being asked in this forum why I am so obese does not really inflame me. It puzzles me a bit. You see, I think that some people who do not have a weight problem truly believe that the problem is all a matter of will power. That is so untrue. I quit smoking when others can't. It is not will power at all.

For me, I now believe, thanks to Atkins, that it is an addiction. And like an addiction (mine to carbs) I have to fight that demon every day of my life. But it is not the same for Levi, for example. If somone has no addition to carbs then to turn down that extra portion, or that baked potato does not compare to the challenge of doing so if you are addicted to carbs. Anymore than it is the same for me and the alcoholic to say no to that drink, or anymore than comparing me to a drug addict when enticed by a barbituate.


The "just-push-yourself-away-from-the-table" mentality works fine for someone with no addition to what they are pushing from. I have absolutely no problem when "pushing away" from drugs. I even was able to push away from cigarettes. But pushing away from carbs has been a 35 year struggle. This addiction is much greater than the cigs for me.

So why am I obsese and Levi is not, genetics with a predisposition to carb addition.

Of course, when one tried to solve this problem it certainly doesn't help that the world revolves around the low fat diets, which created such a dieting problem to begin with. Perhaps one day the food industry will open their jaundice eye and see that LC is a viable market.

[In_Control]

Why do some people do drugs? Don't they know it's bad for them?
Why do some people drink too much? Don't they know they'll get a hang-over, or become an alcohlic?
Why do some people continually get in abusive relationships? Don't they learn to stop doing this after the 1st, 2nd, 3rd divorce or breakup?
Why do some people smoke? Now I KNOW they KNOW it's bad for them!
Why do some people continually OVERSPEND and get into debt? Don't they know that they could get into a whole heap of trouble? Not to mention the headaches and woe!
Why do some people LIE and CHEAT and STEAL over and over again? Don't they know they could go to jail, or how that hurts their relationships with others?
Why don't students study when they know finals are coming? Don't they know that they could FAIL or do very poorly? Don't they know it could affect the rest of their lives?
Why do people have numerous children when they can't support them? Don't they know better?

Okay, hopefully you get the point. We are here on this earth to learn! We all fail miserably at some point in this most important journey. But what is WONDERFUL about "mankind" is we try to get better! EVERYONE, yes EVERYONE, (even the lean mean fighting machines) have "weaknesses!" I believe God gave us weaknesses as a blessing!!! Yes, a blessing!!!

Everytime I've worked hard to overcome a weakness (may be my anger, or WEIGHT), I learn that God is there waiting to help me. And he does!!!! What an invaluable lesson to learn. That there is a real power out there we can use in our lives. To learn that there is a higher being WHO IS PERFECT and all knowing and he cares/loves poor pathetic WEAK --- and fat, ME! What a wonderful lesson he teaches me, in my weakness, to rely on him and myself and overcome!

Hey, if someone all powerful and loving like that cares for me, and a drug addict, a liar, cheater, overspender, theft, etc... we all must be pretty special despite our weaknesses. Wouldn't you say?

This forum is a prime example of how we learn to help each other too. Levi, you probably have a wealth of knowledge on the subject of muscle building. You could really help someone who wants to know how to get rid of body fat. I'm slowly beginning to have a lot of knowledge on LCing. There are others in the world who have a wealth of knowledge on various things. Those talents can be used with love, to help others! I think our weaknesses teach us to be more tolerant of each other and to have compassion too. ALL wonderful traits to obtain!

Didn't mean to get "religious" but you asked why. Hopefully I answered!

[Lisa N]

I think that no matter what the reasons are for being overweight or obese, the important thing is that everyone here is trying to do something about it and for many, this is the first time in their lives that they have found something that really works for them. I applaud everyone who has not given up, but instead searched until they found a solution and continue with this WOE despite the negative attitudes and opinions of others. True strength lies not in how much weight you can lift or how hard your body is or even in your body fat percentage; it lies in how well you perservere in the face of obstacles and to all those who have perservered, I say bravo and well done!

[elizz]

Levi,
First of all, if you have to preface a comment with "this posting is not intended to flame anyone" then it is probably a good idea to keep it to yourself. Secondly, American women and men are beautiful people - inside and out. I think it is completely shallow to judge a whole nation of people based on their weight. I have been to Germany, by the way, but I will not make any sweeping generalizations based on my experiences with a few less than desirable people.

I want to commend everyone with their amazing restraint and their insightful replies. Your responses show you not only possess outer beauty but inner beauty and strength as well. Sadly for Levi - beauty seems to only be skin deep.

[destro]

There have been a lot of excellent and informative answers to Levi's post, so I will not try to recapitulate them nor will I go into a lengthy autobiography: My opinion is that FOR MYSELF asking myself Levi's question really helped: I had to learn WHY I was a compulsive overeater and why I became one rather late in life (comparatively speaking).

I think that becoming badly overweight is often a response: perhaps to medications, perhaps to disease, perhaps to metabolism, and in my own case, and I speak not for anyone else, a response to chronic depression and also a true desire to keep people away from me. I did not want anyone to try to admire me or to get too close to me.

As an obese woman, I have often been bemused by the things that people have said to me. They ASSUME that I must be "stupid".

Levi, I wrote a book and it was a pretty popular book. The publisher asked me for a photograph of myself to put on the dust jacket. How I hated that! I did not want that to happen at all, but I dutifully got a photograph taken and sent it to the publisher.

They DID NOT include the photograph on the book; they feared that it would harm sales (although the book had nothing to do with body, diet, or body image). Obesity remains a social stigma in the USA as well as in Germany. I think that it is not asking too much, however, for this forum to deal with each of us politely and respectfully and realize that we are all here because we want to feel and look better and also to be as healthy as we can be.

I am not happy about being obese and I am clearly doing something about it. I had to look not only at my diet, but at my psyche and my personal history to start to understand something about why I am obese.

But first I did have to ask myself the very same question that Levi asked: why did I get obese? What was the pay-off for me?

I cannot comment, not knowing, about the different reasons people get obese in different countries. But I do think that one key factor, which has already been mentioned, is that I truly believe that there is superior medical care in the European countries.

When I was in Paris on the Paris metro I would often feel sorry that I was the only fat person there and reflect on what negative feelings the people might be having about me.

I live in a city that has recently been declared the fifth fattest city in the USA.

In short, I agree that obesity is pandemic. I have read that there is growing overweight in countries such as Japan. I would imagine that might be attributed to a high-carb, Westernized diet and to the proliferation of American Fast Food all over the world.

Natalie

[OneLowCarb]

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :bash:

[heyjude607]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm with you OneLowCarb..."There's a song in there somewhere"... "dodo dodo, dodo dodo" Welcome, you have just entered the twilight zone!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"A new me is right around the corner."

[deb_o]

Levi, I didn't start to try to lose weight until I could answer that very question for myself. I don't wish to go into everything here, but my weight issues revolved around self esteem issues. You could say they were pretty much one and the same. I can tell you I deliberately put a wall of fat between myself and the world around me. I can't explain why things changed for me, but I'm glad they did!
Low carbing isn't "just" for losing weight. It is a healthy eating lifestyle!
Your picture shows you have worked very hard on defining your body. Good for you! What you are wearing isn't any different from what we see at pools and on beaches every summer.
Take care, and welcome here.

[greg5756]

I am not to concerned with levi's post. I believe alot has to do with the American Medical Associations (AMA) pyrimid however you spell of food for a healthy diet. We all know as LC's that this has to be updated. By the way I believe it has been proven that North Americans work more hours than most country's. We are the creators of many fast food franchise's We settle for fast and convient meals then came super size and North Americans beign thrifty figured out 20 cents more for large or extra large I don't believe income has anything to do with this. I believe it is lifestyle North Americans have to give up something. We will not give up work we cherish our time so if it is easier to stop by Mc D's or order a pizza we do I think we are of the mind set that we can always change and I also believe that obeseity really went rampant when North America realized how bad smoking was for you and many people quit. with that you gain lots and lots of weight. Wait until Germany cracks down on tobacco like North America did you will see weight gain then.

[Paulette]

Hi, Levi. I'm not offended. I think a better, more positive and helpful question, though, would be why are Europeans generally more fit than North Americans? We have all heard about the French paradox, but what about Germany? Don't you drink a lot of beer? And your'e famous for your tortes! What's that about? Do tell, Levi.

Paulette

[destro]

Levi and everyone else:
You might want to read the NY Times article, which has been posted in two topics in the Media forum for a long, but really intriguing, speculation (which I agree with) that really does address Levi's question.

Natalie

[tamarian]

Originally posted by Paulette
I think a better, more positive and helpful question, though, would be why are Europeans generally more fit than North Americans?

From my experience living in Europe, you have to do a lot of leg work, and the public transit systems there are much better than ours in North America, so they depend less on cars.

I lived for years without a car, just using bus, metro, train and walking. If I needed to hook up my phone, I had to go there personally, you can't do much through the phone compared to what you can do here.

In addition, there's a commitment to tradition in Europe. Yes, they have all the fast food chains, but many resist them. Not for health reasons, just for the sense of traditional food.

Many of the traditional foods are fattening, but they are real, and "less" processed than what we take as convenience foods.

The paradox may just be in eating real food, and being more active. North America is cursed by it's love of fake food, and striving for technological convenience, in food and daily life chores.

Wa'il

[fiona]

Interesting points being raised here.

It all boils down to …. LOL! here I go again … balance.

There is nothing wrong with abundance. Those without cars yearn and lonnnng for the day they will have their own car. If I appreciate that not having a car has its advantages (I am forced to exercise more and burn more calories in simply carrying out daily tasks – I don’t need to “work-out” and suffer the pains that follow; I don’t need to work so hard to be able to afford one) then my desire for owning one is reduced. If the benefits of owning a car is all I can think of then I will push myself to the limit to get that car. At the end of the day are the sacrifices I am making to own the car balancing the benefits of owning one?

The same goes for food – am I balancing what I NEED with what I want. Figuring out why I personally am not getting the balance right for me and working on that is the key.

What made me fat was not making the correct adjustment as technology progressed. Not getting the balance between exercise and rest (TV, especially with remote control / Computer as opposed to manual typewriter) correct.

Take care,

[joanie]

...I just can't resist! Since I am a very opinionated person whose mouth has gotten her in trouble on more than one occasion, and who does not usually sugarcoat things...I'll just leave it that my opinion has been well represented in very eloquent terms by the other very intelligent people on this thread!

Levi, I will say this...we Americans aren't all SOOOO obese! I am the only obese person in my family. My two sisters are normal weight, my parents are very slightly overweight, and my grandparents weren't large, either. My husbands family is all of normal weight.

I went to Paris in 1999 and saw some fat French people (GASP!) And some thin Americans! (Double gasp!) I get annoyed when people paint with a broad brush, and miss the obvious. Are some Americans fat? Hell, yeah. Are some addicted to carbs or other things? Of course. Do some eat too much? I'll let you answer that one. Fill in the circle completely and use a Number 2 pencil!

I will say this...I am treated like I'm "smarter" now that I'm encroaching on a normal weight. I was never treated poorly before, but now no one ever talks down to me anymore, and I like that. I like the way I'm treated when I shop (probably why I'm doing so much shopping these days!!) and I like the extra male attention I get. And (and this is bad) I like looking down my nose at people who weren't so nice before...!

Enough said. Not as eloquent as the rest of you, but there it is.

[chaconm]

I could not resist posting. I am working in Germany and have found that all the major stores carry clothes in my my size and much larger. There must be a great demand here or this would not be true. I also see obese people here daily - just as many as in the US, so I assume you are just not looking around. Perhaps it is all the potatoes and heavy bread, as well as lack of fresh vegetables on the menu's in restaurants. I was in the hospital for three days and was served pasta, bread, potatoes and a lot of other white stuff. Very little meat, vegies or fruit. Maybe you better re-examine your premise that Germans are not obese and can eat the high carbs without problems.

I gained weight in a very depressing time in my life and am working to get rid of it, not an easy task in the land of high carbs, but I will succeed.

chaconm

[wannbeslim]

Levi,

This is actually an interesting question - one which many people have probably tried to answer themselves. I know that you are well-meaning, but the people on this forum are the ones trying to DO something about their weight issues, and hence may appear defensive. As you have seen, the answers to the questions vary widely since obesity does not have a single cause.

First, it is important to understand something about the American culture. We are by and large descended from people that were agrigarian. That meant that one worked physically and hard from sun up until sundown. Meals were huge because they needed to be in order to supply adequate calories for farm labor. One was never allowed to waste food - partly because there might come a time when there was not adequate food to eat. We were as children instructed to clean our plates. Nevertheless, foods were farm food - wholesome and pure - lots of vegatables in the summer, smoked and salted meats in the winter. We canned it ourselves so it didn't have fillers and even the sugars were made from maple sap and it was only what could be tapped in the winter. We couldn't buy store sugar as it was too expensive. Snacks were not given. Or consisted of meager servings.

Then our society changed. It became more urban with people working in place for long hours. When I was working I worked at a desk for 60-70 hours a week and only two weeks of vacation - please compare that to your work hours in Germany. I rode a train to work. Physical activity consisted of the walk to and from the train each day. Moreover, we became a land of plenty with all kinds of foods that were at one time "special treats" readily available for daily consumption. In short, what you have in part is a clash between our cultural heritage and modern life.

Second, there are physical causes for obesity which we are only just beginning to understand. Genetics, viruses and other factors may influence why certain people become obese.

Third, so-called "health concious americans" may have actually hurt themselves by following trends that may be unhealthy. Vegitarians may overeat to get adequate protien if they don't understand what they are doing, propaganda against meat in the 1950's - 1980's may also have hurt, popularity of supposedly healthy, but high starch diets have influenced our eating habits (i.e. chinese and italian cooking).

Four, we are event society. Americans love to get together, but these events rarely involve a high level of activity unless one chooses to participate. Thus, we go and watch a ball game - and of course eat. We have BBQ's which center around eating. We meet at a restaurant for a nice meal. Etc. In areas where the "activities" involve physical activity more and where the climate allows for physical activity year round (trust me in the great plains when it is 20 degrees below 0 F, you don't go outside unless you have to), we are thinner and more fit. Food, and high carb food in particular, do not play as important a part in our entertainment.

Hope this helps

j

[Pete]

Levi,

Its a good question, one I think many North Americans have pondered. As you have realized, when you ask a pointed question in this forum, you some times get a defensive answer. It goes with the territory.

I think wannabeslim's answer is a good one. If I can add to it, the work life in North America, particularly in major cities and financial centres can be quite "desk" intense, with little time for some good excercise. And we definitely are an "event society". Couple that with bad eating habits with a heavy emphasis on carbohydrates, excessive alcohol consumption, and a poor understanding of nutrition and you have a recipe for disaster.

I tend to agree with your view on North Americans. Having travelled to Europe many times, my informal observation is that we North Americans do seem physcially bigger. I think that's part of the issue too. Being overweight is a relative measurement. When more people around you are overweight, can freely buy clothes tailored to being overweight, rationalize the weigh scale as not being all that relevant, people tend to ignore their own reality.

[wannbeslim]

Levi,

I have had a few more minutes to reflect on your question. I addressed some of my thoughts on why Americans (I cannot speak for my Canadian counterpart having not lived there) are overweight. I do think climate and genetics (i.e. you didn't survive on the frontier without an ability to bulk up) play a role. But your question also posed another anomily in american society - the fitness extreme - either we are ultra fit or obese. Well, not quite, but there do seem to be these extremes in place.

First of all, there are more than 250 million of us so no one stereotype will fit. But what you may find true is that many Americans are competitive and disciplined with a high level of work ethic. This can cause "over fitness" or obesity at it's extremes. A person tied to his desk all day doesn't pay much attention to what he is eating so long as the bottom line is taken care of. Then you have the fitness extreme, which is essentially the same thing, but applied to one's physique. The energy that some apply to work is applied to staying fit. Thus, you have this apparent dichotomy, which is actually very consistent.

Again it is cultural. I still think all of this stems from Americans having to work so hard to eek a living out of the untamed soil. We were conditioned to make something from nothing. From the frontiering spirit it became the rags to riches story. This is so ingrained in our cultural personna.

Thanks for listening and putting up with my typos.

j

[tamarian]

Rhollmer,

You post has been removed for violating our user agreement.

Wa'il

[Pete]

I didn't think Rhollmer's post should have been removed. It was revealing by itself. I think that was kind editing on your part Wa'il, if you know what I mean.

[Rhollmer]

No no - I can understand why that post was pulled. It may have been a little too poignant for some tastes. I just get a little over zealous when I see people that are trying to unfairly critize others. People come to this board and lay it all out there for people to see, as intimate as weight control is for many people, then some kind of person has to come and flaunt their physique. That is a nice physique that Levi is sporting, however I would challenge Levi to be as brave about being as honest and open in a public forum as everyone here seems to be. Just because you have a good physique does NOT mean that the rest of his life is in as perfect an order. Get my drift?

I apologize for the hasty posting and I will try and contain myself within the rules of this board. :wave:

[sms1]

My thoughts on Levi's Post...

I think that the question that was posed was valid and thought provoking. The replies to the post were enlightening.

When I first saw the way the question was phrased, I was also concerned, however I believe what some folks are taking as a "flame" is in reality a legitimate question phrased clumsily.

I studied German for 5 years (many years ago!). At the time, I could write and speak fairly well, but NOBODY would ever mistake me for a native! I could use the language, but I was not able to say things the way I would have said them in English. I could not be subtle. I could not be elegant. I could not be tactful. I could only really communicate basic ideas and concepts and hope that the person I was speaking to understood my limitations. And this is easier done face to face, rather than looking at words on a screen.
Consider your conversations in really good ethnic eateries(Chineese, Thai, Indian, etc.)-many of the wait staff speak English, but their construction of the spoken words may not match the way a native speaker would say them.
I would suggest that everyone remember that this board has an International following, and we should not take offence where none was intended.
As to the photograph, while that swimsuit would not be typically seen in the US or Canada, it would certainly be more popular on the beaches of Europe, the Med, and the Carribean.
Levi has been LC'ing for a couple of years and it has worked well for him. If I had been working to lose weight and define muscle and I achieved what Levi did, I might be inclined to show off my physique a bit also. (Note to all- that is not my objective- personally I wish to drop enough weight to be healthy and "more normally sized". I still have a LONG WAY TO GO ! ;)

I have gone on longer than intended, so I must bid you all a good night...

[Karla]

There is a satellite channel called Deutsche Welle, which is broadcast from Berlin all over the world so Germans who are living or travelling outside Germany can keep up with the news, etc. at home.

Much of the programming is, of course, in German, but the news and several other shows are also broadcast in English and Spanish at different times of the day.

My DH and I have a satellite dish and we like to watch these shows because we learn a lot about European news and attitudes that we never see on the news in the U.S. (We used to watch the news from Canada until the CBC scrambled the satellite channels! But that's another story)

Last night we were watching a show called Germany Today and one of the guests was a doctor who talked about the growing number of obese adults and children in Germany, and the dramatic increases in diabetes, hypertension, etc.

So Levi, we aren't the only ones with this problem, and it probably has the same cause, because Coke and McDonalds and high carb, high sugar junk food in general is spreading across the globe like a plague. Even the French are succumbing to the convenience of fast foods. I just hope the Europeans skip the low fat nonsense and figure out that it's the excess carbs causing the problem.

Karla

[RawSienna]

:mad: At first I was "incited"...just as Levi intended me to be...
:confused: Then I was confused....is that REALLY him in the picture?
:rolleyes: Then I rolled my eyes at his second post...getting a gut reaction and instinct that he was really enjoying the hubbub he caused.
:) Then I had to smile at all the wonderful and insiteful answers...and how well all of you restrained yourselfs (not that all of you had too, but I'm sure some did)
:hyper: I was secretly cheering on some of you...you tell it like it is girls/guys!
:D And laughing at the oh-so-funny "gotcha's" posted by some (loved your post Atkid)....

Lesson learned....
Listen :read: first...speak MUCH later!
:clap: You ALL rock...even you Levi!

:wave:

[Zzoom]

Levi,

I couldnt resist adding a post even though the previous post was a month ago...

Being British I would like to think I can be regarded as vaguely neutral. I have worked for both US and German companies and from what I saw I don't think there is that much difference. However, a LOT more Germans seem to smoke thab Americans (and Europe in general) which I am sure is related.

On refelction I think I would prefer to go quickly with a heart attack than die slowly from cancer.

Zzoom

[Rhollmer]

Good point but I think that Levi is long since slithered away from this board.

[PoofieD]

Why is north america taking such a hit.
Germany IS NOT full of skinny body building levi's. quite the opposite.
Holland also fills its people full of white breads and potato dishes.
My brother spent two years there and came home from being a slim young man to an overweight young man. Its happened to SEVERAL others I have known in the same region.
Fact is.. in North America or Europe we are fighting the same battle. Even the French are catching up as they start to fill in with carbs that are too easy to digest and save as Fat.
Levi KNOWS the answer to his question.
I was waiting for him to explain why his assumption was all the same.. and WORSE for the women.
I know. not really the thread topic.
But Levi has plenty of German's to ASk about why they are obese. He really does. North America is not the creator nor the soul owner of this problem
We screw up our hormonal system and eat foods that are too easy to produce and then save on the body as Fat.
Most of us "north American" ladies have DIETED ourselves to fatness. Trying against all odds with low fat high carb diest endorsed by the government and supported by big business with their cheaply produceds diet foods..
LOL.. My ex husband just bought some "french pastries" made of puff pastry and coated with cinnamon and sugar.. and they were touted as being "healthy" according to the AHA....
With information like that.. HOW can we possibly win the battle?

[Scarlet]

Levi

I am Irish but am living in Germany with my BF, so I think I can point out some things that you as a native german may not see.

1Firstly, fruit and vegetables are about a billion times cheaper in Germany. I can get broccoli, cauliflower etc. for about 50 cent in my local Lidl. I can get a basket of fruits for a similar price . In Chicago for instance, one apple costs about $1. My brothers lived on fast food when they were students in the US simply because healthy food is so expensive there

2 The low fat fad did not sweep through Germany as much as through the US. So Germans kept on having their salad with real, high fat non sugar filled sauce

3 I don't know where you live, but I see loads of OBESE ppl here. However, in Germany ppl seems to suddendly get fat when they reach their 30's or 40's. I theorise that this is because they eat enough good stuff in the form of Wurst and veggies to protect them from all the sugar they consume, but in mid life their pancreas and hormonal system has had enough and can't take anymore, even though they are still having their protein

4 The German govt protects its poor and unemployed. My friend has been unemployed for 11 months and receives 580 euros a month plus a rent allowance. Given that food is cheap anyway, he won't be forced to eat high carb gunk , EVER

5 There are loadds of cheap exercise facilities in Germany in the form of swimming pools. I don't think this is the case in the US

6 Everyone has health insurance so can go to as many docs as they want if they are concerned about their weight. This may not solve the problem, but there ARE some enlightened docs around


Oh and BTW Germany has the highest BMI in Europe. I really don't know where you get the idea that there are no REALLY fat Germans. When I was in Turkey recently everyone at the tourist resort catered to Germans, selling Wurst, automatically talking German to you even before you opened your mouth etc. Well, when I went shopping I was told that I was slim because most of the sellers market catered to Germans and they are [direct quote] " big".

[RCFletcher]

Hi Levi!

Well, firstly I’ve lived in Germany and let’s be honest; there are plenty of fat people there too! Secondly I’m British not American and over the last 40 years or so I’ve seen British people getting fatter and fatter. I have my own theory so here goes:

When I was a young boy in the post war ‘50’s most meals consisted of meat, potatoes and at least three different vegetables. This is typical British cooking – lots of vegetables. In the past 50 years however British cooking has become much more international. The Americans gave us McDonald’s and all its clones – French fries (carbohydrates) with a bit of meat in a bun (more carbohydrates); the Italians gave us pasta dishes (carbohydrates with sauce) and pizza (carbohydrates with crap on top); Chinese and Indian take away places opened everywhere (rice=carbohydrates with bits of meat, often coated with carbohydrates in sauce). As a child I drank tea, milk, and water we couldn’t afford soft drinks loaded with sugar. Now they are everywhere.

I live in Belarus (Weissrusland to you) and people here are also generally slim. Again, no international cuisine and lots of vegetables.

Maybe German culture is more resistant to change than the British one was – but if it is not then you can look forward to Germans getting fatter and fatter too, just like we Brits have!

Actually this was a useful posting and has caused many people to think – never a bad thing. Well done Levi!

Regards,

Robert

[jarmin88]

Your question is powerful and emotive but I think there are elements of this that need to be discussed. There IS a wave of obesity starting from the US but spreading over the whole globe - English speaking people then industrialised first.

No-one is immune - I recently read reports in the French media that obesity in French children was growing at an alarming rate. Eurpeans are behind in this but we're still following the same trend - this is initiated in the US but we're all ending up in the same place.

The low carb theory offers some interesting solutions as to what may be going wrong despite peopl's best efforts.

My candidates for US-style obesity are the following:


Hydrogenated oils
sweets
cola drinks
artificail sweetners
high carb diets


Put more simply I think its obesity caused by an increase in sugar and flour (refined) aggravated by US style consumerism (advertising and centralised distribution) and aggravated by a misguided attempt to live healthily (margarine, hydrogenated oils, breakfast cerals, cutting meat and butter and yo-yo dieting)

The problem has the feel of an avalanche because government advice merely feeds the original problem instead of curing it. The brutal truth is that as a species we're more and more removed from our habitat and our natural foods and the powers that be won't challenge the food industry vested interests

[Fietser]

Originally posted by fridayeyes
Hi, Levi,

Having dispensed with the shinai, I can now proffer the other mode of enlightenment. :)

Your post violated two basic tenets of politeness: familiarity and tact.

Familiarity is the idea that the better you know someone, the more personal the questions you may ask without offending.

Tact is the ability to know what is likely to be offensive or provocative and to choose your words so as to present the most benign interpretation.

When familiarity is low, tact must be high or offense is given.
Friday

Perhaps the overreaction of the Americans was caused by their sensitivity to the word obese.
After all, this is a nation where e.g. the word menstruation isn't said out loud, but referred to as the TOM (time of the month). Or when you're blind, you're visually challenged. Instead of obese, they are gravitationally challenged.

Frankly, I consider myself to be obese, as I have 35,5% body fat (measured again today).
I don't know the tables for BF% but I just did a test for Body Mass Index and it results in 31,2.
The table reads the following
Lower than 18: underweight
18-24,9: normal
25-29,9: overweight
30-39,9: obese (obesitas)
>39,9: morbidly obese (morbide obesitas)

Luckily they are a bit off the mark as I have a lot of lean body mass (around 50 kg out of 78) and I'm in the overweight group..

For years I'd react very emotionally when people would have said to me that I'm obese, but a couple of things cured me...
1 a visit to the USA, where I saw more obese people in 1 hour than in all of my life in Europe or Australia/NZ
2 a love of sports.. so I may be obese, but I'm good at cycling and love climbing mountains..

To me, the main cause of obesity in the USA is probably the huge servings you get in restaurants loaded with the wrong kind of foods. Same for the size of packages.
I was startled by the lack of good and fresh vegetables and fruit, which are also very expensive in the USA.
My background is a bit similar to what the others say: told to eat everything on the plate because of the starving kids in Africa. I would skip breakfast and lunch, so my only meal of the day would be dinner which I didn't even like that much...
Now I'm trying to eat 6 meals a day of 300 kcals and feel stuffed.. but interestingly also hungry once the next meal comes around..

Be grateful that the culture in Europe (Germany) is still a fairly healthy one, but this is something which unfortunately is changing rapidly. I'm seeing some women in my fitness club that could easily be mistaken for American women.. however, I'm very happy they take the steps to do something about it.. Being very obese is less socially accepted in Europe as well, but being a tad overweight is not something we obsess over...

Hope i didn't offense anyone again, I just wanted to say what I experienced during my travels in the USA of approx. 1 year... btw, Americans are among the friendliest people I ever met (except for Canadians, New Zealanders, Ozzies and Cubans which come equal or before).

[Talon]

After all, this is a nation where e.g. the word menstruation isn't said out loud, but referred to as the TOM (time of the month). Or when you're blind, you're visually challenged. Instead of obese, they are gravitationally challenged.

ROFLOL! I am not sure what part of the US you visited, but I can emphatically say that this is not true! TOM is just easier to type. :)

I was startled by the lack of good and fresh vegetables and fruit, which are also very expensive in the USA.

"Expensive" is a realative term - I don't find the fruits and vegatables to be expensive. Nor do I find them not to be fresh!

To me, the main cause of obesity in the USA is probably the huge servings you get in restaurants loaded with the wrong kind of foods. Same for the size of packages.

Yep, I agree that is a contributing factor.

[RCFletcher]

Hi Fietser,

What surprised me about the reaction of my American cousins was not how easily they were offended but their extreme politness and their honest attempts to give an answer.

What hurts about the question is not the word 'obese', it was that the question was asked to a group of people who,realising they are obese, have decided to do something about it.

This thread has caused a lot of soul searching; and that is not such a bad thing. We have all asked ourselves why we are obese (or fat or whatever), we have all decided it is because of too many carbohydrates and we're all trying to do something about it.

Good for us!

Regards,

Robert (An obese Brit.)

[doreen T]

originally posted by RCFletcher
What hurts about the question is not the word 'obese', it was that the question was asked to a group of people who,realising they are obese, have decided to do something about it.Indeed.

I realise that some of our readers are seeing this discussion for the first time. So, for their benefit, I'd like to point out that this thread was originally posted by levi in our Triple Digits forum. He did not post it in the Research area, he did not post it in the General area. He specifically targeted our members who are struggling to lose 100+ lbs.

Just so folks have some perspective on the earliest replies here.

Doreen

[Lisa N]

Originally posted by Fietser
I was startled by the lack of good and fresh vegetables and fruit, which are also very expensive in the USA.



I guess it depends on where you shop, what's in season and what you are looking for. I never have trouble finding good quality fresh fruits and veggies that are in season for a reasonable price. If I want to buy a fruit or vegetable that isn't in season, of course I'm going to pay more for it as they usually have to be shipped in from Chile or Mexico when things are out of season here. For example...I live in Michigan and wouldn't even think of trying to buy oranges in the summertime...wrong season for them; they would be a dollar a piece and probably not very tasty, but in the winter months, I can get a 5 pound bag of juicy, tasty Florida oranges for about 2 dollars. On the other hand, in the summer I can get canteloupe for about a dollar a piece, but in the winter months they would be at least triple that. If you're buying what's in season, the prices, quality and availability are quite good...at least where I live.
Expensive is a relative term. I won't argue that it costs more to eat meat and fresh fruits and veggies than macaroni and cheese and spahgetti, but then again, how much is your health worth?

[Fietser]

Thanks for the replies, I saw too late the topic was a 'dead horse' (started in July) but since I'm new on the board .. started a keto diet 4 weeks ago and did 2 carbo loads in 2 weekends.. actually I think I'm borderline diabetic and now I'm not used to eating that many carbs anymore I actually don't even like carboloading in the weekend and will do a daily mini-carboload instead.

I have another question, where is Adipositas 101?

I've bought Lyle McDonalds ketogenic dieting book but haven't started reading yet (busy, busy), but I am currently quite concerned about my metabolism. As I never really recorded my food intake, I have no idea how much my typical input would be, but I'd be surprised if it was more than 2000 kcal on a daily basis. I just was a terribly irregular eater... with alternatively carbo loading and starving myself. Yet, everyone always supposes I'm eating way too much and I've started to believe the same, without exactly knowing whether it was true or not (I never dieted because my mom said it was no use, but instead I just wouldn't eat all day). Isn't this dieting stuff maddeningly complex? Eat too little and your metabolism slows down, eat too much and it speeds up but you still put on weight, etc etc..
A last observation.. there was a nation-wide research done in the NLs regarding food habits. It was concluded that we would all be overweight if it wasn't for the regular (cycling) exercise most of us got.. that tipped the scale towards being healthy enough. Hence I refuse to buy a car, unless I'd be forced to.. so far I am not... so am forced to cycle anywhere or at least to the railway station...

[Fietser]

I'm reading the thread now and thought that I forgot to add that I also saw more Americans that were extremely thin and fit than I see in my own country.
Hence I looked into my stories which I wrote about my cycling accomplishments. I participated in Paris-Brest-Paris in 1999 but DNFed after 700 K (it's a 750 mi non-stop ride where you have to finish in maximally 90 hrs). I put in the part about the Americans:

Later I met the Americans, who were mostly staying in luxury hotels, together with their luxury bikes. These bikes made poor Griffon shrink, because of a starting inferiority complex. Not only his owner had surplus weight, but also poor Griffon was now recognised as a 'heavy bike' whereas he had just been complimented on his lightness in Russia! More than half of the American bikes seemed to be made of titanium, carbon or at least aluminium. Even some of the tandems were made of titanium. Lots of futuristic designs too with free-floating saddles!
" But surely Griffon, they can't do fully-loaded tours, like we do!” Not just the bikes were dazzling, the randonneurs too! Not just their outfit, but their 'physique'. Almost all of them, and almost especially the women seem fit enough to walk up the Mt. Everest with a bike on their back!

Yes, this is another side to the USA.. the dazzlingly beautiful bodies of so many fit people.. I can't get to any gym here which opens before 9 am and I am lucky mine DOES open at 9 as my former gym would open at 1600 hr (but opens 11-13 on 4 days/week).

[jarmin88]

I just needed to add my two penneth about whether levi's post was offensive.

First language. Like alot of Germans his English seems very good. What he won't have command over however is the subtlety of register and that's where the greatest offence usually occurs because register indicates a subtle collection of rules we are socialised into and are rarely made explicit unlike grammar and spelling which are. Register tells you what you can get away with and when..... I think an English speaking person even if not from the US will have a better handle on this (if only because of exposure to this in American films and TV).

As people who are beginning to address our overweight/obesity the slap in the face posed by this question can be helpful. You can only survive obesity by adapting to it. Adaptation strategies include acceptance of a higher weight, denial, refusal to weigh yourself or look at yourself in a mirror and various forms of rationalisation. I was quite shocked to find out I had a BMI of over 30 (actually I had a BMI of 34 !!!!!). I think you need various coping mechanisms including some degree of lack of reality to maintain your self esteem.

But eventually something cuts through the armour. Either seeing a photo of yourself or being told you're overweight or developing a medical condition. And that's how most of us decided to try low carb. Given the way our society works low carb is a strange diet so chances are most of us are here because we've tried more conventional methods resulting in failure and realising this plan was our last hope.

Anyway I think that part of the process of healing is to get back to reality and start acknowledging the bottom line in a frank and brutal way.

Of course this is not for everyone - we're all at different stages of defensiveess and that has to be respected. However I note that this thread is in the war zone. (not sure if it started there or was moved there) so I think we should be more robust about levi's question.

I think for me it is helpful to start calling a spade a spade. I also think I need to psychologically process the slow descet into obesity in order to be able to come to terms with being thinner. I have found that I have needed to do this mind work every bit as much as the work on my body in order to have the motivation to continue. I have also found that it is not easy and the psychological component of adjustig to a new body image can be hard and confusing.

For these reasons I do feel for anyone offended by levi's post (I am sure he's tough enough to take a few reprimands on the chin in any case) but overall I'm really glad of his question and some of the really insightful replies it has generated as well as helping my own psychologocal process.

This thread has been one of the most illuminating things I've read in a really long time.

:wave:

[Fietser]

Very illuminating indeed Jarmin!
A thing which is necessary for all of us, is to
- be able to really believe that we can be thin(ner) than we are now (and all the wonderful success stories here point to it). In the past I would not believe in it and start eating garbage again, once I was close to my desired weight
- be able to distinguish between the physical you and the mental/inner you. We aren't worthless because we are fat/obese/overweight whatever, but this is unfortunately the way society looks at obese people. Hence the great offence. In the past I would have been offended as well. Heck, my brother told me not to wear those wonderfully comfortable fleece leggings because I have a too big butt. I still did and do.. which is an improvement as in the past I didn't put on a swimming suit for 15 years because my body was too embarassing to myself. Or undress myself in a public dress room of a gym! Now I do all these things again and while I still don't like myself, I am not ashamed anymore.. This also holds true for having sex with another partner.. I never had a lasting friendship with a man, because again, my weight was too embarassing for myself... A pity that I thought that way.. am changing this as well.
Yet, the question was originally aimed at the difference between Europe (or Germany) and the USA. Not why we (you, me, others) are fat, but why are there more fat/obese people in the USA versus all other countries.
There have been enough answers and I gave answers as well... hope you found my observations on the amazingly fit Americans amusing !

[hjackson]

Orinally, he posted it in the Triple Digits Forum, where people have 100+ pounds to lose. When you read the phrase "how did you become SO obese", be aware he's talking to people who are more than 100 pounds over their target weight. We have people in there who are fighting with loosing 200, 300 pounds. He emphasized the word "so" by capitalising, and by putting it in the place where people have to work the hardest to lose the most weight.

Had he placed this in the War Zone to begin with, none of us might have had the kind of reaction we did. We would have seen it as a slap in the face, but because it's in the War Zone, we would expect that. Instead, he put up an avatar of a trim body builder (presumably a picture of himself), with stats that demonstrated he was either at or below his goal weight, and then asked this question of people who literally, have the most to lose. He asked this question of people who have fought with this problem for years, people who have been conditioned to be ashamed of their girth. We get judged by everyone around us, and we get judged by ourselves. The Triple Digits Thread is a group of people who have decided to do something about their weight, something rather radical to the common view. These are people who come here to find support and encouragement when they can find no where else. We come together and celebrate every pound gone, because that's another step towards health and victory. We're actually paying in our health for the weight we carry. In the light of those facts, can you begin to understand the kind of reactions he got?

This got moved to the War Zone, where it should have started.

[melissa07]

I really don't see how good and fresh vegetables are that expensive in America. I think the problem is that people will pay more for frozen vegetables in a bag because it more convenient than preparing fresh food. It is actually cheaper to buy fresh, at least in the part of the country in which I live. I also agree that people eat out too much. Eating out seems to have become Americas #1 social activity. When I began Atkins, I really became aware of this, and made a conscious decision to eat out only on occasion. And we've talked about fresh veggies being expensive....by not eating out as much I could buy enough fresh fruits & veggies to last me into the next decade.

[JayDee]

Levi - you gotta be kidding! What black forest in Germany do you come from??? Germany, the capital of beer drinking and sausage eating, and you are saying you don't see obese Germans? Open your eyes and look around - Germany has it's fair share of obese people as well. Maybe not in the narcissistic little world you live in, but in Germany as a whole. The reasons for the obesity problem amongst ANY group of people is so varied and individualized there is not enough time and/or space here to go into it in detail. I'm sure you didn't get your low bodyfat, bodybuilders physique without a lot of concentrated and hard work. Not to mention the constant attention to diet. It would be noble if you truly wanted to understand what makes people become overweight, however, I believe you were more interested in getting your photo on this forum and "rubbing everybody's nose" in their weight problem. Be careful you don't seriously injury yourself and have to go without being able to work out and watch your diet. You might find yourself "ballooning up" and forced to go on a serious weight loss regimen. I wonder how you would handle this serious blow to your self-esteem. My bet is it would be devastating as so much of who you are is obviously based on your physical appearance.

[Fietser]

JayDee read the thread..
Ever been to Germany. Yes, it is a country full of overweight people, but very few of them are as obese/overweight as you can see in the USA.
Hence his question phrased as "SO obese".
It has been addressed quite eloquently in the thread and if I may say so by myself as well (albeit not as eloquently).

[PoofieD]

Might I suggest if your really concerned about all of this.. TRUE concern..
That you start right there in your own Germany. Because the truth is.. YUP.. you do have HIGH rates of obesity..and its going to get worse before it gets better..
Want to know why?
Because you have never had the slimness in General of your neighbours in France..and their rates of that and heart disease are raising drastically...the rule of 20..
And what with the influx of fast food and other such products ( now don't kid me Levi.. we get a few of your German high carb products right here in the sweet loving USA!)..
And with the problem you had previous to that in your country..
Its going to get alot worse.. WORSE, because folks like you are in a rather self centered bubble where somehow you German's are above all of that..when you weren't BEFORE the us rates because to sky rocket!
If you really want to help.. start at home.. and get real with your own issues.
Hurrah for your that you have a great body right now.. Hopefully none of that is due to steriods ect..
If it isn't..good for you.. now start to give back to the system. But trust me..you didn't get that way because your so wonderful.. or so immune to the problem

[jarmin88]

Germany is certainly not immune. But to take the heat off Germany for a bit I found this recent link to a UK news story that is typical.

http://society.guardian.co.uk/publichealth/story/0,11098,793882,00.html

and one from the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2253004.stm

The last one does point out that Britain will lead the continent in obesity stakes.
We are all in this together

To the question "How did I become SO obese I answer that my problems seem to date back to when I vigorously followed a low fat diet (i.e. ten years ago). To reinforce the point I'm making I include advice currently given by the British Health Service online about diet and fat that illustrate how I became obese.
http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/innerpage.asp?Area=38&Topic=47&Title=Losing

http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/innerpage.asp?Area=37&Topic=38&Title=How
http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/innerpage.asp?Area=37&Topic=37&Title=How

I think these last pages illustrate the problem exactly. To lose weight I have simply done the opposite of what my government is telling me to do and the opposite of what I did to gain the weight in the first place. (Not only that but the diet they promote is generally tasteless and unpalatable in any case. Its actually alot worse than any food pyramid I've seen.

[Kristine]

>>"Had he placed this in the War Zone to begin with, none of us might have had the kind of reaction we did."

Uh... the War Zone didn't exist until last week. ;)

Y'all, it would probably be a good idea to keep an eye on the dates of posts - old threads often get dragged up to the top by people doing searches, voting in polls, etc. This is from *July 2*. Levi's last post was about a week later. He's long gone; it's old news.

Cheers

[Fietser]

Yup, I did a search for him.. apparently I was the only one. His last post on the entire board is from July 19. So, he missed everything from then on...
But still, it remains a useful thread.. and I'm new here since 2 weeks, so it isn't old to me.

[mnokat]

The original poster of this thread is probably long gone at this point, but I just wanted to add a few things that seems to have been missed throughout all of these discussions.

European families are still for the most part very stable. By that I mean that the mother still cooks for the whole family, everyone lives together until the children go off to university, or get married. Grandparents are often found to live in the same house. Meals are still a family event, and the largest meal is served in the middle of the day, as opposed to ours at night.

American families, on the other hand, are very different, and segmented. If the parents are not divorced, it is highly likely that both work - sometimes even working multiple jobs just to pay the bills and ensure that there is a roof over everyone's head, there is food on the table, and that there is health insurance to take care of everyone's needs. Not to mention that there is a working car. Not only are our public transportation systems for the most part SEVERLY lacking... there is also the question of sheer SIZE and DISTANCE. I work 50 miles away from where I live. As far as I know, this is a very common thing in the US. Not as common in Europe, however, where each COUNTRY is smaller than most of our STATES. Therefore, much easier to install and keep up public transportation, and have your work be much closer to your home. Walking to work is not, and has never been, an option for me, or anyone I know.

Also, with the >50% divorce rate, most of those children have turned into what I was... a latchkey kid. I had to fend for myself for my meals beginning at an early age... I would cook for myself and my brother after we got home from school, or swim practice, or soccer practice, or tennis, etc. I was a very active child, and yet in high school I was still considered heavy, wearing a size 14. Mind you, I was a lean size 14, with lots of muscle. My LBM is 141, which makes my "healthy weight" at about 175... which is what I weighed. None of my doctors were ever concerned with my weight. My family, and fellow students were much more harsh, however.

ANYWAY, we lived on Kraft mac & cheese, Swanson TV dinners, Fried seafood every friday, pizza a couple of times a week, etc. High carb. This never effected my skinny as a rail brother, but I had to begin dieting at an early age, due to the perception of the general US population that I was overweight. Many years of yo yo dieting has ruined my metabolism. I actually got down to 167 at one point, about 5 years ago... I was eating less than 1200 cals a day, and running between 3 and 5 miles EVERY day just to MAINTAIN that weight. And yet, at my 5'3" height, 167 would still be considered overweight in our society.

Add to that the US Corporate belief that More is better, meaning larger portion sizes at restaurants, buy 1 get 1 free, etc... the average portion size has increased by at least 50% just in MY lifetime!!!!!! It's totally out of control. I have to make sure that I doggie bag 1/2 of my food whenever I go out to eat, because there is no way I can, or should, eat that much food in one sitting! There is no such thing as a 4 oz piece of steak... I don't think I've seen one less than 8 oz ever... and I KNOW I see them as high as 20 oz all of the time! Serve that with a large scoop of garlic mashed potatoes, garlic bread, and if you are lucky some sort of side veggie, and you have your normal american meal out. And everyone wonders why Americans are gaining weight???

I've fought with my weight my whole life. Those close to me have seen the struggle. There are those, whoever, that will just never understand. They are the people with normal metabolisms... the people that ate normally their whole lives without consequence. The ones that have that "I'm full" trigger that allows them to push away their plates... the ones that never excercise, never worry about what they eat, and never gain weight. The ones, like my family, that at age 40 go to weight watchers to lose the 10 lbs they have gaines since age 25. LOL

[Truus]

I know from previous posts that the originator of this thread is no longer here, but like someone said, it's an interesting question.
I grew up in Amsterdam, the Netherlands. When we immigrated, my first meal in the US was breakfast cereal. Nope, not oatmeal or cream of wheat, or a small open face 1/2 sandwich, but sugary cereal where I was "allowed" to add MORE sugar! Wow, was I in heaven or what????? Then there were pancakes, waffles, etc etc....the quantity was astounding! I wasn't fat, I was fairly young and even then I remember how MUCH food there was here in the States. It's my opinion that maybe one reason for the rise in obesity is just sheer quantity.

[pgroves]

I'm sorry I haven't the time to read all the way through this thread...it looks very interesting!

I DID go through a couple of pages. And as Truus noted, the originator is no longer with us (did somebody find him?!!).

I was, however, again, totally impressed with the maturity, strength and patience with which the group dealt with such an inflammatory question. YES, the question was valid. Was it asked in a respectful manner? I don't freakin' think so!

It is things such as these which convince me that I with the right people. In the light of honesty, ignorance will have no place to flourish.

Too cool: yer the best!

TTFN,
Phil

[Binger]

I am sorry to jump right in, since I was only able to read two pages of this thread!

I think that one reason people ( not just Americans!!) are heavy, is the fact that there is food everywhere. Everywhere! I can't even go shopping at the mall. It seems like every other storefront is selling something huge and sweet that no one needs.

I asked my mother, who is 82, what she thought of this question. Her reply was this: " We had to work for our food when I was young. We had pie, but we had to make it. Time was spent moving wround to produce it ,then everyone had one piece after dinner. Dessert was not a daily occurence.
We had an ice box that didn't hold much. Shopping was an everyday task. Every meal had to be prepared... eating out was practically unheard of."

She went on , of course, but you get the idea. There are many reasons why person becomes overweight, but I would have to agree with my mother that too much food, too easily obtained is one of the major contributors. The food eaten before the introduction of preservitives was whole food, mostly. The carbs that were eaten were wholesome vegatables. Food wasn't eaten out of monstrous sized cartons while sitting behind the wheel of a car. Candy was a rarity, fruit an occasional treat.

Hmm... The 1930's Kitchen Diet.... maybe.... :roll: !

[ysabella]

I'm an American born and raised, and just spent 3 years living in Europe, and I gave a lot of thought to this question myself.

First of all, obesity is not unheard of in Europe and it is rising fast. It's rising fast all over the world. People smoke more and drink more in Europe (in my experience) so it's not like they're paragons of holistic health perfection, or necessarily good at denying themselves treats, but their habits are different.

I think that first of all, there's the walking thing. The dense population of Europe, the walkable cities and towns, and the public transportation make walking at least a little per day much more common among everyone. Or biking. My husband is Dutch and finds the idea of biking for exercise sort of amusing. That's just how you get around, for him. Where we live now, we can walk to do some errands, but many people in the U.S. can't get anywhere by walking - the closest store or pub is miles away, or sometimes closer but pedestrian-unfriendly with no crosswalks or no sidewalk. I firmly believe we should make our communities more walkable.

Incidentally, gyms, to many Europeans, seem a bit masochistic (they have them, but they are considered kind of an American thing). If they are concerned about fitness they are more likely to take up swimming (public pools are quite common and easy), go dancing more often, go hiking/skiing on weekends (like some pals of mine in France), or play basketball with friends.

Second, food additives are less there, for the most part. I spent lots of time in grocery stores in every country I went to (I found them interesting). They eat more fat and more vegetables in continental Europe than America - when they say that French people eat a lot of vegetables, you should remember that these aren't always steamed with lemon, they are au gratin, covered in cream sauce, etc. some of the time (which, happily, we can do on these low-carb plans). Also, produce in Europe is always labeled as to where it was grown, so you know how far your food has traveled, and shoppers are very concerned with quality.

Don't think for a minute they have less sweets in Europe - they have lots of delicious treats, but again I'd say they are less processed for the most part (often fruit-based or custard, compared to a Rice Krispie Treat). My first sight of the chocolate aisle of a Belgian supermarket left me speechless - one side of an aisle just stacked high with all kinds of chocolate, from huge bulk bars to little candy bars. But overall they eat whole foods, they eat more things raw, they don't have sweet things for breakfast (breakfast cereal is not very big in Europe), and they don't have as powerful a sweet tooth as Americans. I would offer that I think the UK is a bit different - I saw rows and rows of prepared foods there, plus they have loads of puffy teacakes and things - although they are still more likely to walk of course.

My time in Europe didn't make me magically thin, but I felt better eating the food there and that strengthened my belief that preservatives are bad. Back in the States, I now look for less-processed foods - bread that will go bad in a couple of days (for the husband, of course :) ), milk products without additives, that sort of thing.

[Belle]

When I was young, I wasn't obese or even fat, well, I was PHAT, but not fat. I was in athletics and in very good shape. I played every sport that the school offered. I ate huge breakfasts every morning. But I went directly to athletics and was active all day. When I was 17, I got norplant. I gained about 50 pounds. I got up to about 150 pounds. When I got the norplant out, I got pregnant with my first child, I gained a little more weight. About a month after having her, I got pregnant with my son. I always said if I ever reach 150, that was the limit. But I made excuses for myself why I was so unhealthy. I loved eating good ole' southern foods that my mom loved to make. Chock full of carbs. Now in my teens, carbs wasn't a problem, I worked them off all day. But picture it now, a mother, I worked in a hometown, homecooking cafe, no lowcarb foods here, ate unhealthy at home and didn't know how to change it because I had never had to deal with the problem before. I had always been pregnant or not fat at all. So, we don't plan on getting obese. Things happen in life, they pile up, and the pounds add up. But we find what works for us and we learn to reverse what added up years before. So, now I am not so obese or fat.
Belle

[Miss Melis]

..... was never obese... was perfect, perfect hair, perfect cheek bones, perfect legs, hips, body, face, eyes, perfect clothes.... perfect girl--

then something happened... to be perfect... for the family, for the boyfriends, for me.. what do people expect from me... controlling mother, controlling boyfriends... perfect, perfect? all a dream? :confused:

That was 12 years ago.... I am no longer perfect... none of my friends, co-workers, etc. know the perfect me that i was... They would be shocked! :eek:

no one would recognize me from the past perfect world... that hurts.... Never go home- avoid people seeing the non-perfect girl..they say to my face..... "where is she?".... "how did you become so obese"... "are you sick?" " you were perfect!" " what happened that you became so obese?" :blush:

Now I am taking control..... a slow process not to be obese... but to love me... control of me and my life, my future... :)

Not to be perfect... but to be a healthy me... a fit me.... a perfect me for me... not for anyone else... ;)

Thank you for letting me post....

Take Care, :wave:
M

[Nushi]

Levi,
I appreciate your frankness. I don't believe you are trying to rub anyones nose in the fact that they could techincally be called obese. Please understand that is a very sensitive subject for some in this boat.

I started getting fat at 16, when I got my first car. Until then, I rode my bike or walked everywhere. Plant my butt in a bucket seat for 30 years and pretty soon, it got too small (the bucket seat, not the butt). Then add in the factor of ever increasing self consciousness - I didn't want to go to a gym filled with people who look like you. It make me feel like a fatter failure. It's really a kind of Catch 22: the more I weigh the less I want to exercise and the less I excercise, the more I weigh. As the scales climbed, my self esteem fell until, for a while, I thought - What the hell, why bother? I have a pretty face and if I change my hair, no one will notice my weight. I don't know about any of the others who post to this site but I got very good at self delusion. Then, one day, while shopping in the plus size store, I tried something on and caught a glance of myself in a 3 way mirror (they should outlaw those things) and something snaped. I got really pissed off. This mirror showed me how I really looked and I didn't like it one bit so, I started Atkins. Now, I may not have lost a lot of weight yet and I have surely fallen of the wagon a couple of times but I am determined. I walk about an hour a day (fast enough to work up a really good sweat) and as I live in the land of eternal Spring, I ride my bike. I have had rude drivers make even ruder comments as they speed by but I take joy in the knowledge that I'm finally getting up off my fat lazy butt and doing something entirely for me. I'm not losing for my family or friends or to hook a new lover but I am losing to satisfy my wants and desires. I want to be healthy and trim. I want to feel comfortable in the world and mostly, I want to still be alive (barring a comet or a bus) to enjoy another 40 or 50 years. Atkins is helping me get there.
The truth is, being fat is very very hard on your body. All your organs have to work harder just to keep your pulse going.

I think some of the posts in this forum are so angry at you because overweight people are subjected to continual negative judgements and some of us have become hyper-sensitive. Judgement comes not just from strangers but from our loved ones and friends. But don't for a moment think that any of these people can be a tougher judge than we can be on ourselves. If I didn't know that I'm the reason I look like this, it would make me angry too. I have accepted that I am responsible for my weight because I chose to put the food in my mouth and I chose to drive 2 blocks to the store instead of walking.

Now my post will probably tick off some of the more sensitive members of this forum and for that I'm sorry. I'm sorry that they haven't realized that in the long run, you are not important in their lives so it doesn't matter what you, Levi, or anyone else think about me and my weight or why you think it. The only opinion that really counts when it comes to me and my body and health is mine.

[Nebbia]

:yawn:
I lived in Versailes France, once upon a time, and we used to play a game 'spot the nationality of the tourist'. We guessed the Germans every time, they were so, large. We thought it might be all that beer and potato soup with sausages.
Unfortunately we Europeans cannot afford to look at the USA and comment on the problems of obesity there, with the way the high carb diet is causing obesity to grow here. So as one European to another I'd say check your statistics, you might find that Germans have just a big (no pun intended) problem as the USA. I know that Britain has and the latest statistics from Italy show that 30% of children are obese. Before you say 'all that pasta' I lived in the north where they eat more rice and polenta. 25 years ago it wasn't a problem because kids weren't given the high sugar snacks and drinks they are now.
Knowing that carbohydrates causes overweight gives us a way to have a normal weight and all the people on this board are taking responsiblity for their health. But you had better be careful because all that muscle might turn to fat if you don't watch your diet as you age!!!!!

[luddybell]

ive always been "fat" but never obese until my senior year in highschool had a bunch of emotional problems then....

this is why i became "obese" then after i graduated i went on low fat diet lost down to 120 lbs and then gained it all back plus some thats why im here now!

[cc48510]

Well, I was skinny until 1992. Then, I started putting on weight. Since, I was underweight before then, I didn't become overweight for 2 years after that. The weight crept on. In 1996, I went to see a dietician.

She put me on a low-fat/high-carb diet. After 6 months, I was still overweight and miserable. So, on June 20, 1997...I ordered a 3/4 lb. Ribeye with a Coke and Fries at Western Sizzlin. My diet was over...I could not take another day without red meat. If only I had known about Atkins...since I was only 10 pounds above my ideal weight.

The following 2 years, I ate lots of meat with fries and coke. But, I cut down on the bread. I had spent 6 months eating lots of grain and pasta and was sick of it. I wanted red meat. My weight gain actually slowed after I quit eating bread. It took me until 1999 to reach the same weight (adjusted for height) as I was in 1996.

But, in 1999 I went off to college. I forgot about not eating bread and pasta after I realized I had to pay for my own food and that bread was $0.79/loaf and Pasta $0.50/pack. In the following 3 years, I gained 100 pounds. Since going on Atkisn I have taken off 67 of those pounds and am hoping to soon be back to the weight I was in 1999 and 1996 (adjusted for height).

NOTE: Adjusted for height means that I was shorter at the earlier time and that the height difference is taken into account. For example, in 1996 I was 190...but, in 1999 I was 220. But, adjusted for height...both weights are equal because I grew 5 inches in those 3 years. in fact, most of my growth was in those 3 years. Heck, I could have grown into my weight had I simply cut my carbs to a level that would have maintained my weight. But, alas I was conviced that it was the red meat and cheese (which I could not give up) that were making me fat and not the bread (which I could and have given up in a heartbeat).

[ANewMe]

I wasnt a fat child, or teenager.. Then I got pregnant.. 3 pregnancys to be exact.. 2 of them I ended up on bed rest after 4 months and with the cravings.. and not being able to do anything.. I ate.. a LOT more than I should have.. and I never really lost the weight.... :/

[fairchild]

I think it is amusing that this thread created a backlash at first.
Yes, America has a population that is one third - yes one third obese. No other country even comes close !

Why?
It is the most commercial society in history. Profit being the motive behind every act, it only makes sense that cheap, highly pleasurable addictive food would be sold to the general public. Portions in the US are so large that you have to have a system of 'doggy bags'-something I have never seen outside the USA.
What drives people to overeat are the same things that drive them to starve or binge, a sense of control over their lives.
This is also one of the least physically active societies on the planet. Everyone has a car, drives it everywhere-they even drive to get the food that they eat-can you imagine our ancestors not even walking to get their meal? Television watching is also higher here than anywhere else, and the behavior associated with watching TV is the behavior of a bed ridden person.
Sugar is marketed to kids in a way that should be criminalized.
I sincerely do not believe that a low calorie diet culture has anything to do with it. Even low fat ones. Fact of life is you have to move your body around enough to burn off whatever calories enter your system. Whether all or no fat your body will not gain weight if you burn more then you take in. Maybe its harder to lose weight on a low fat/calorie diet but is certainly not the way that the weight was gained.

[alaskaman]

Don't know that this has anything specifically with this topic, but was in the checkout line today, getting a couple of rib steaks, some daikon for lowcarb homefries, some leaf spinach, etc. and I noticed that the guy ahead of me was huge. A 300 pounder easy. And he was drinking a non-diet pepsi and buying about a dozen candybars. And I did NOT feel all self-righteous, but honestly my heart just went out to him, thinking about diabetes down the road, and all the other stuff that he is heading for, and I wanted to just beg him, "Buddy, don't do this to yourself.." But didn't do that, none of my business, really. If only he knew -- those candybars for "quick energy" -- he'd feel so much better after a couple of nice fatty porkchops or something like that. Oh well.

[ANewMe]

^^^ eek, I probibly would have felt and thought the same about him if I saw that man as well.. I guess you have to make mistakes to learn sometimes...

[alibubble]

Pregnancy caused my weight gain too.
I was a UK size 14 before the babies arrived and no matter what I ate or didn't eat I always stayed the same.
With my first baby, once I'd recovered from 3 months of morning sickness, I binged like I'd never binged before. I put on 42lbs.
I nursed her for 6 months and never lost a single pound, even though I was back to normal eating. My midwife told me that those who breastfeed either balloon or burn away the gained weight...I ballooned. Once I stopped breastfeeding I lost the weight almost over night...it was dramatic.
With my second baby, after 3 months of morning sickness, I ate sensibly and very healthily, I'd leant my lesson...this time I gained 45lbs !!!
Again I breastfed for 6 months and was hoping the same miracle would happen as it did the first time around...did it hell...I just couldn't shift the weight this time.
It's taken 4years (2nd babys birthday this last weekend) weightwatchers and now Atkins to get me back down to my pre-baby state.
No more babies for me !!

[cc48510]

Originally posted by fairchild
It is the most commercial society in history. Profit being the motive behind every act, it only makes sense that cheap, highly pleasurable addictive food would be sold to the general public.

True. Everything in this country is loaded with sugar...even stuff that has absolutely no need for sugar. I look at some stuff and just can't imagine why it would need sugar.

Portions in the US are so large that you have to have a system of 'doggy bags'-something I have never seen outside the USA.

Our portions aren't that large. I remember my dad went to France when I was a little kid and he described entrees and sides that were much larger than what we serve in most restraunts here. I think the difference is the food we don't think about...the food before the meal. Most people probably eat a whole meal's worth of carbs before they even get their entree.

This also one of the least physically active societies on the planet. Everyone has a car, drives it everywhere-they even drive to get the food that they eat-can you imagine our ancestors not even walking to get their meal?

There are alot of issues here...Schools are cutting recess and encoraging kids not to exercise. A perfect example is Book It...a program where kids are rewarded with free Pizza for staying inside all summer, reading instead of going out and get some exercise. The school I went to as a kid quit letting us go outside after we finsihed eating, because some kid split his head open.

In addition, some streets just aren't safe to walk. Its not that people aren't willing to walk...they are just afraid to walk. Think about this...my grandmother was mugged while walking with a friend. People in some areas are afraid to walk the streets. That is why people drive everywhere. I was mugged walking to school once...A teenager once flagged our car down...he had been beaten and robbed walking home from school and did not want to go back through that area.

Television watching is also higher here than anywhere else, and the behavior associated with watching TV is the behavior of a bed ridden person.

Not true...I watched plenty of TV as a young child...and still got plenty of exercise. I walked several miles to and from school until the events I described above. After that, I would play sports after school...mostly basketball with lots of running and jumping until my mom got off work. I easily got more exercise than most people and still watched plenty of TV. The only times I didn't watch TV was when I was camping, which was only a few weeks a year. Even when I was in the mountains and would hike several miles a day, we still had TV and watched it at night...albeit not with very good reception.

Sugar is marketed to kids in a way that should be criminalized.

Amen to that.

I sincerely do not believe that a low calorie diet culture has anything to do with it. Even low fat ones. Fact of life is you have to move your body around enough to burn off whatever calories enter your system. Whether all or no fat your body will not gain weight if you burn more then you take in. Maybe its harder to lose weight on a low fat/calorie diet but is certainly not the way that the weight was gained.

Again...as I pointed out, I easily got a couple hours of exercise a day in middle school...yet I gained weight. Why, because as you said above about sugar...I would exercise a bit and then quench my thirst with a sugar-laden drink undoing all the exercise. You can work out all you want...if you are replenishing with a sugar-laden drink...the kind marketed to those exercising...the exercise isn't going to help you.

[fairchild]

Geez, I had no idea Florida was so rough!!

The thing is that here in NYC, where I have lived since the 70's it has been pretty rough, but we have a mass transit system that allows us, no forces us to walk. That is something that is a blessing in disguise. Unfortunately obesity is a nationwide problem, and a much discussed one lately with research reports coming out monthly on the crisis.
The latest reports are shocking, and should shock us into doing something about it like a nationwide awareness campaign, because it has become a health crisis that we all will pay for, whether we eat carbs or not!
:lol:
I am no Dr but read the New York Times Health section, and the latest and scariest article was about the rise of obese INFANTS in the US, there is no way they could become obese if their parents werent feeding them crap. I dont have kids either, but this is something that really disturbed me.
Another was about the rise of obese CHILDREN. They are matching their adult counterparts and nearing one third of all kids. The same article discussed an experiment where children were allowed to choose thier own portions-when left on their own, the children choose child sized portions, when fed by adults, the portions grew by a third. The studies all agreed that what has changed since the Eisenhower era when America had the same number of overweight and obese adults and children as other industrialized Western nations was television viewership and calorie consumption-something Atkins talks about in his book. Calorie consumtion has skyrocketed and television watching which was rare in the 50's turned into the mainstay of activity for kids and adults.
As a kid I ate what I wanted, but played sports every season and did not have to watch my weight-average eating after practice: two scoops of ice cream, then a bag of tortilla chips, then got home and directly ate a large dinner-two pork chops, mound of mashed potato and applesauce. No problems for me ! Everyone is different, but I know the difference was playing soccer, lacrosse, running around starting with walk to school at 7:30 till walking home at 6PM.
Both traveling and hosting folks from abroad has made me aware of our extreme portion sizes-they now sell soda at roadside stands that are a gallon large for one person!! Everytime I would take out of country friends out to eat here they would ask if we were meant to share our entrees and would complain they couldnt eat it and never heard of taking food home with you. In France, I never encountered anything like Applebees! Nor did I see anywhere near as many overweight people. In Italy I ate 7 course meals that were smaller than some entrees I have gotten here. I dont think that there is any mystery to why there is a nationwide epedemic of obesity and I dont think its because people dont feel safe going out. I think we are for the most part lazy, and I think the lack of sports programs in public schools have a lot to do with it. My Dad forced us to play sports the day we were eligible for it-around 6 years old, I thank him for that.
I would hope that industry does not snuff out the need for a campaign for health in the US. I think it is long overdue
:doah:

[hjackson]

Ah, but you also mentioned you walked to school daily...

As a sub in the local schools here, I was working at the middle school one day when the announcements came on, and the children were very sternly reminded that they were NOT ALLOWED TO WALK TO SCHOOL...there were only 2 children who had permission to walk; all the rest of the children had to take the bus or ride in a car. I had never ever heard anything like this before in my life. The school officials actually FORBADE the children from walking to or from school. I assume it had something to do with safety issues or some similar excuse.

Also, my neice, Kendra, just turned 5 yesterday. Her parents don't give her large portions...we went to Applebee's recently, and a children's pizza was ordered for her. We had her eat 2 of four pieces, and she didn't have to eat the crust where the sauce and cheese wasn't. If we didn't make her eat the good stuff, her choices would be all sweets. This is the child who was rewarded for learning to swim with candy, then given ice cream after we all got out of the pool, a cinnamon sucker when we got to the cabin, and that was all before lunch! We then gave her a tiny bit of barbecue meat (her parents are fairly good about not making her eat bread when she doesn't want it, so none of that empty filling) and some of the sides (I forget what they were)...and we told her she had to clean her plate. She struggled to eat it all because she'd had all the junk before hand. She's amazing. She'll complain that she's full, and when her parents tell her she may go play, but she's not getting any candy/ice cream/dessert unless she eats more of what's on her plate. We aren't giving her huge portions...she gets a slice or two of pizza (small slices, and she doesn't have to eat the crust, remember), some mushrooms that she loves to eat, and some olives, again, that she loves to eat. She'll stop, having eaten on the mushrooms and olives and a bite or two of pizza...but as soon as she hears she gets no sweet crap if she doesn't eat more, she sits back down and eats the rest of the pizza...and then she adds crap to that...chocolate pudding, dessert pizza, candy...she finds room for the things she thinks are important. I think if she hadn't always had candy available to her, we could get her to eat more of the substantial stuff, the stuff her body needs to grow...she seems to always eat just enough to leave ample room for candy and fool Mom and Dad into thinking she ate enough. Of course, she also plays a lot, too...running around, playing with their dog, etc...

just a few of my contributions, having watched children's lives one way or another.

[cc48510]

Fairchild...not the whole state...just certain areas. I grew up near one of the bad areas, which limited where I could safely walk. Dominos has a map on their wall of where they will and will not deliver. I asked once why my area was a "No Delivery" Zone and was basically told that their drivers had been robbed a few times near there. I moved to Pensacola a couple years and like it because I feel relatively safe walking to the stores here...which I do on occassion.

I think the most important change obesity wise was the end of home cooking. When my mom cooked...I ate alot healthier than when I ate out. A meal was a salad, meat, and vegetables. No bread, and desert was an occassional treat. Since the meal was ready when we sat down to eat, we also didn't drink a half gallon of soda while waiting.

But, when we ate out...the meals came with unlimited bread, unlimited sugary soda, soup, meat, two orders of potatoes, and a desert. After we started eating out all the time...desert became a daily treat, rather than an occassional treat. We started eating 1-2 baskets of bread and 3 sodas while waiting for our food. Restraunt food is just plain unhealthy. Very few restraunts serve fresh green veggies as my mom and grandma did when they cooked. My mom never baked bread.

My grandma only did so on rare occassions and then only enough for each of us to have one or two small rolls or biscuits. In 1992, I spent the summer with my Grandma...had great food and got plenty of exercise. I flew home at the end of the summer and my mom had stopped cooking and we began eating out all the time. My weight slowly increased until I went off to college (220 pounds) and began eating the cheapest food I could find (pasta, rice, etc...) at which point I balooned to 320.

[#seven]

I think that the people who were offended by this guys comment had every right to be offended. Although on the same line I believe too that it was the word obesity that offended and not the question. I don't like the word RETARD, because of my profession but I'm sure you've all used it a time or two. And that's okay because I understand that, although people don't think their being rude, sometimes words come out wrong.

[Angeline]

Excellent Point CC..... it's not very often mentionned that one of the major changes over the past 30 years is how much we have come to depend on eating out and using pre-packaged food. It seems to be a characteristic of North America. It doesn't seem to be nearly as prevalent in Europe, mostly because eating out is a very expensive affair.

I live in Canada and everyone I know that visits our American neighbours comments on how gargantuan the portions are there. Thank God the supersizing movement doesn't seem to have caught on very much here, in Quebec, apart from fast food. Maybe that's why when I look at the people on a busy street, it's fairly rare to see a hugely overweight perosn.

[bostongirl]

Just don't come up to me on the street and ask - here, I don't take it personally.
Why am I fat? I have access to high fat, high carb food. I celebrate w/ food, I cry w/ food and I love food. There is food everywhere!!
Did I mention I don't exercise?
I'm also a Health Education major....I know how to be thin and stay thin it's putting it into motion and doing it. I'm lazy, I guess. I love PIZZA!!! Beer - even better.
It's quite simple why I'm fat...it's trying to get thin that's the tough part.
Ask away...but don't ask me on the street.

[sunkist]

since Levi looked somewhat like a bodybuilder I guess he thought he had it all under control. BUT>>>>

My husband is a competitive bodybuilder and (not him) but from being around other bodybuilders I can tell you - they become OBSESSED with food. They diet like crazy for twelve weeks before a show then after the show (some/not all) will go on binges. I knew this one guy who actually bought like ten different cake and browny mixes, didn't leave his house for a week because he was just abking,baking,baking!! We called him Betty Crocker!!

I did laugh at one of Levi's posts where he made it sound like if we saw him that we should get all excited and that he has the right to be sooooo conceited. It made me giggle!!

The average bodybuilding diet is very low in fat and that is what sent me into a full blown eating disorder for 8 long years. We need healthy fats, not all this nonfat sugary diet food!! In my opinion if we could get back to eating more whole foods, raw milk & cream, raw egg yolks, hormone free meats, less breads etc. - get back to the way primitive peoples eat - we would NOT have weight problems. I am including a link to dr. weston price's website - it is really worth checking out!! Once on that website you can click on the very top and it brings you to even more info
DR. WESTON PRICE (http://www.westonaprice.org)

[cc48510]

In my opinion if we could get back to eating more whole foods, raw milk & cream, raw egg yolks, hormone free meats, less breads etc. - get back to the way primitive peoples eat - we would NOT have weight problems.

I'm with you on everything except the raw eggs and raw milk. The risk of samonella or other disease is too great to use raw eggs or dairy all the time. I've had food poisoning twice that I can remember...once from undercooked, contaminated eggs (1988) and once from undercooked, contaminated hamburger (1991). The hamburger food poisoning was one of the worst experiences of my life.

The food poisoning from the eggs wasn't a picnic either...I quit eating eggs (directly) for a little over 14 years because of that. I now eat them once again. I blamed the beans (served with the hamburger) and haven't had any beans (other than string beans which I never considered a bean and products made with soy, which I didn't know until recently was a bean) since then. Now, that I know legumes are high in carbs...I have no intention of ever eating them again.

[sunkist]

The chance of eating a raw egg yolk (free range) contaminated with salmonella is 1 in 30,000 - however how can I discount your own experience? I can't!!

I have never had a food bourne illness EXCEPT a case of strep bacteria contained within potato salad at a deli restaurant!! The irony is that my sister who is a Dr. of Epidemiology and Microbiology ate it too and she also contracted it!! She sent her staff there the next day and closed the place down till they could trace the source of the strep bacteria!!

I think everyone is different in how susceptible they are to bacterias etc. But I'm sure you're experience was NOT fun!!!

I'll supply a link for info on the raw egg yolk/salmonella topic in case anyone is interested!!!

RAW EGGS FOR HEALTH / DR. MERCOLA (http://www.mercola.com/2002/nov/13/eggs.htm)

CONTINUED GOOD HEALTH!!
Sunkist

[gretchend]

I did not become overweight until I had children. I weighed 135 which is my ideal weight for my height, then I got pregnant and went up to about 190. When I had my daughter I went back down to about 165 and then had my next daughter and went up to 200. I went back down to about 175 and stayed there until about 6 months before my son was born and when I got pregnant with him I lost my mom and was very sick and actually lost about 20 pounds in my first trimester (terrible time). Then I got back up to about 190 and after having him went down to 175 again. Since I hadn't gotten over the fact that my mom died, I became really depressed and got put on medication which brought me up to 193. That is when I realized I needed to do something about it. Now I am 150 and working my way back. I don't know if I will ever get there, but I am sure trying. Sorry this was so long.

[sunkist]

I know how hard that can be - both my parents are deceased as well - I wasn't close with them - so I can only imagine when you are close it makes it harder.

Women go through so much with their bodies - so many hormonla shifts and the stress of 3 pregnancies is NOT easy. Hang in there and it so great that you made it down to 150 - that is VER close to your goal weight.

Like I said in my other posts I have gone on many a diet path and am starting to realize if we do eat whole foods - natural foods - and keep our eye on all the packaged starchy, sugary, even sugar free stuff (laden with artifical poisons) our bodies will come into a beautiful balance and suddenly all the pieces of the puzzle fall into place!! Also don't feel bad about typing so much - look at me - I'm the queen of long winded posts.....HERE I GO......


P.S. To anyone concerned about RAW MILK products - I buy from ORGANIC PASTURES - they test every milking for pathogens - They test twice of day all the milk products. Guess what in all the years they have been in business they have had Z E R O pathogens. (salmonella, listeria, strep etc.)

I just talked with the owner mark McAfee and he informed me too that not only has the CCOF found zero pathogens EVER, but that when Mark brought his milk products to a lab and asked to have pathogens INTRODUCED into his milk products - within 1 hour salmonella was KILLED, within 1 day listeria, strep and E-COLI was so damaged that under a microscope it was INACTIVE!!
All this because of the amazing natural healthy bacteria preasant in raw milk from cows who are pasture fed, do not stand in their own poo all day, are allowed to roam wherever they want (Mark even invented a mobile milking machine that goes to the cows wherever they are in the pasture instead of herding them into manure filled corrals and upsetting them.

There's a way to do things - a right way and a wrong way. When it comes to raw milk products - if you find a farmer who does things the RIGHT way - you have just struck gold.
I just had 1 piece of sprouted sourdough rye bread (naturally low in carb - no sugar added) with a big tablespoon of their raw butter!! It is amazing and contains CLA (conjugated Linoleic Acid) great for helping you lose weight (you know - they sell it for like 20 bucks a bottle in the health food stores!!)

ANyway Gang - if you do want to try raw dairy - make sure you know the product that you're buying. Here's a link to mark's site

ORGANIC PASTURES (http://www.organicpastures.com)

[blonde1]

LEVI HOW COME YOU GOT YOURSELF TO 220? THAT IS OVERWEIGHT MAYBE OBESE FOR YOU. AS FAR AS AMERICA GOES AND AS FAR AS GERMANY IVE BEEN THERE I DONT KNOW WHAT WOMEN YOU ARE LOOKING AT BUT YOU HAVE ALOT OF OBESE THERE. IM GLAD YOU DID SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR OBESITY. AND IM SORRY BUT YOU SHOULDNT TAKE DRUGS WITH BODY BUILDING ITS OBVIOUS STERIODS ARE BAD FOR YOU. SUE :bash:

[VarisSul]

I'm certain I could blame my fatness on a great deal of things. However, when I get right to the basis of it, only I am to really blame.

I got lazy. That's it. I got comfortable and lazy and then the fat decided it wanted to stay, and I got fatter. That's how it happened for me.

I was a thin child. I was very active as a child and came from an upper middle class family. We were a close family - we ate our meals at the dinner table - together. I was a thin teenager, until my period started. Then, of course, I "bloomed" and gained a bit of weight to re-shape my body. I was still very active - a cheerleader, basketball player, etc.

When I was 17, I joined the Navy. I was still very active, but became pregnant and this is the first time I ever gained weight that was impossible to lose. After the birth of my child, I was able to become active again and again, was thin.

Then, something happened. I cannot explain exactly what happened, but it happened. I began to not like myself and started to gain weight. Whether the not liking myself came because I was gaining, or vise versa, I don't know. But, I began to drink heavily and gained a great deal of weight. I decided I needed help, went to rehab and started to exercise more. I lost all that weight eating salads and fish and drinking coffee lattes daily (no sugar, of course.) I felt good. But, it didn't last. I got pregnant again and again, I gained weight.

To make a very long story short. I got lazy. I stopped getting exercise and was still eating the high carbohydrate foods for a very active person. I wasn't aware how these foods interact with blood sugar and everything that I know now so I was at a loss for losing weight. I went low fat, low calorie with limited results. And, because I had done so much damage to my metabolism, I was unable to lose with exercise alone.

Now that I have found Atkin's WOL, I am more in control of my food choices and am exercising and losing weight. I'm not sure if this explains why I am so obese to you, Levi, but it's the only explaination I have.

[VarisSul]

I'm certain I could blame my fatness on a great deal of things. However, when I get right to the basis of it, only I am to really blame.

I got lazy. That's it. I got comfortable and lazy and then the fat decided it wanted to stay, and I got fatter. That's how it happened for me.

I was a thin child. I was very active as a child and came from an upper middle class family. We were a close family - we ate our meals at the dinner table - together. I was a thin teenager, until my period started. Then, of course, I "bloomed" and gained a bit of weight to re-shape my body. I was still very active - a cheerleader, basketball player, etc.

When I was 17, I joined the Navy. I was still very active, but became pregnant and this is the first time I ever gained weight that was impossible to lose. After the birth of my child, I was able to become active again and again, was thin.

Then, something happened. I cannot explain exactly what happened, but it happened. I began to not like myself and started to gain weight. Whether the not liking myself came because I was gaining, or vise versa, I don't know. But, I began to drink heavily and gained a great deal of weight. I decided I needed help, went to rehab and started to exercise more. I lost all that weight eating salads and fish and drinking coffee lattes daily (no sugar, of course.) I felt good. But, it didn't last. I got pregnant again and again, I gained weight.

To make a very long story short. I got lazy. I stopped getting exercise and was still eating the high carbohydrate foods for a very active person. I wasn't aware how these foods interact with blood sugar and everything that I know now so I was at a loss for losing weight. I went low fat, low calorie with limited results. And, because I had done so much damage to my metabolism, I was unable to lose with exercise alone.

Now that I have found Atkin's WOL, I am more in control of my food choices and am exercising and losing weight. I'm not sure if this explains why I am so obese to you, Levi, but it's the only explaination I have.

[badgoat]

I'm glad I read past the thread title...this is actually a *great* thread. I come from a family of fatties. Well, pudgies who fight the good fight. Except for my German grandpa (mom's side) who could eat what and whenever he pleased and was still a rail. :rolleyes:

Obesity in US children has increased by 50% since the early 90s...hmmm...maybe something's in the water. :confused: We all know the other harrowing adult stats...even the airlines are admitting we're much heavier than earlier decades.

For me it's been: anti-depressant meds (80 lbs later...but not leaping off tall buildings! :D), alcoholism (now in remission!), carb craving --- no one's chocolate was safe after I quit drinking. Not staying with exercise -- all or nothing mentality. I used to be a rather buff 160 lb size 12 at age 28. Now at 36, a farm-work strong but OBESE 237 lb. size 22. I swore I'd never get here. Poor food choices, over eating, lack of portion control, not planning meals and eating on the run. The US is infamous for this one. And I think we are all paying for it in weight, BP, and CV health.

Not for this fatgoat anymore...

Time for some high protein hay,
badgoat

[norminbat7]

while i'm not 40 plus %, i am currently at 29%, i've been as high as 35%, for me it was easy, i became semi achohal dependent for 3 years, lots of booze and beer and i went from 10% to 35 %. i'm sure this is not to common or uncommon.

[rebsee]

Try reading 'Fat Land' by Greg Critser - it's about how the obesity epidemic began in the US in the 1970's (It's all Earl Butz's fault, by the way!) due to the government sneaking cheap palm oil and corn syrup into everything they could, along with the branding madness in schools with canteen size problems, and super-sizing in fast food restaurants. That's as far as I've read so far. It's a real eye opener and explains how this epidemic is turning into a worldwide pandemic which will result in diabetes for everyone if it's not stopped now.
Basically the corporations make their money out of our misery and they keep on doing it my getting us addicted to this crap. Thats why meat prices remain high while sugar and carb prices are low - to entice us to buy those things instead of meat which is non-addictive.
It is a very informative book and reduces my faith in world governments even further (Along with Michael Moore, Naomi Klein and John Pilger's books.....). I'm yet to read 'Fast Food Nation' but I'm sure I will!

[Jeanne Sch]

I do think his post has merit although it is a common prejudice in Europe about Americans.
I look back at pictures of my family and see my Mom, cousins, aunt and Uncle and they were considered FAT KIDS and OBESE ADULTS (about 25 years ago). However, the next generation is now OBESE as kids (this is not perception but rather reality). I was always a thin kid but by my late 20's I had grown to 220 lbs (at 5' 11" that is not as bad as it could be but I recall I was a size 20).
What caused my weight gain? growing up on high carb/cheap diet in a semi-wealthy family watching its food costs with 4 kids to feed. In my late 20's, unbeknownst to me, I developed a fungal infection in my gut from the high carbs and my food allergies and went to hell from there :mad:

I believe Dr Atkins answered it best by saying that the *chatter* about low fat, high carb was midleading and led many Americans to obesity.

I could be wrong on this count but I think that Americans are more open to change than Europeans (in Europe, you have an entire history and culture you are born into and it has been there for so VERY VERY LONG, a stronger reason for *traditional ways*). This may be why Americans have experienced such a fast decline in health and body form in the last 20 years - so many listen to the media and government readily (neither a good nor bad thing, just a different culture thing).

15 years ago, I recall reading an article (I was a slim 145 lbs at the time) about how our kids in the next ten years were going to grow in size and develop heart disease and diabetes before they reached the age of 20. This sounded RIDICULOUS but I could think of a few examples already (they were basing it on fast food restaurant trends).

My saving grace? I've never liked french fries or much fried foods, so fast food restaurants held no special draw to me. I believe that if I did have a love for all that fast food has to offer, I'd be MUCH larger.

I'm shocked, amazed and in total awe at how much weight Atkins and other Low Carb people lose. It speaks for itself doesn't it? :D

[blonde1]

iM JUST WONDERING WHY LEVI POSTED THAT PICTURE. LOL :confused: :roll: :roll:

[cab]

Your stats are a little off there Levi, there is no way you are close to 200lbs, you wish.....


Get a life, you go on support fourms to crush women that are trying to better themself?

Try a little Cell-tech, instead of the juice, won't make your brain shrink....


Maybe I'll go start another thread and ask, "why were you so skinny in high school", Twit....

[Stargrrl]

I think this guy has a good enough grasp on the english language to know that capitalizing SO in the title was offensive. He thought he would get away with it by immediatly following up with a statement that he isnt wanting to start something.

The point is well taken, and he doesnt seem to me to have a human interest in anyones health but a morbid circus-freak curiousity, "How did you get that way?!". Give me a break, we see right through you buddy, as if there are no heavy people in Germany or Europe why are you so preoccupied with it? Thats a bit weird, like your pelvic thrusting pose.

Too many steriods? Whatever. I dont look at muscular people and think jealous thoughts I see a person who has perfected a disipline, and I dont look at a heavy person and think that this one has none. Thats just ridiculous, I see different people in different situations with different body compositions and different amounts of free time. I dont care what anyone says it takes alot of free time to to maintain 5% bodyfat. Most of us dont look and wonder like you do about how others "got that way" we are concerned and focused on ourselves. The fact that you focus so much on others just tells me despite your fitness achievements you are really just a very insecure person and maybe just not terribly bright thinking you'd start a post that way and not be attacked.

Too bad theres people like you out there giving fit people a bad name, because I can think of alot of them who would be very dissapointed in your behaviour, and I like to think that you are not the majority.

Stargrrl

[ndelacourt]

Being a Canadian having spent many, many summers in Europe....I think the difference is here, in North America....fast food rules. Everything is convenience....Mc'Donalds is the preferred restaurant for kids starting at a VERY young age. In Europe....meals are more balanced....more emphasis on fresh food....people are generally more active in Europe...you walk/bike a lot...here most people drive around the corner to the store. I know a few people who drive 1/3 of a km down they're driveway to get the mail!!

North America is the land of abundance and convenience.

I have travelled at least 20 times to Europe, have lived in London, Amsterdam and Frankfurt, and have found this to be true in all 3 cities.

Hope this helps your curiosity!
Natascha

[nana]

Levi, I didn't read everyones post, should have, but here is my 2 cents.

Growing up everything was an effort to do, not like today. Pop was a once every other week thing. No sugar coated cereal, no mac n' cheese mixes, etc. Kids did not watch tv they played outside from sun up to sunset and then some. I think I only came inside to eat meals. The same hold true for my children, they played outside all day, never came in and when they did they had fruit to eat. Things are different today for my grandchildren, they don't play as much outside so exercise is limited, the foods are all processed and pop is a beverage not a treat. Fast foods are a way of life almost eaten daily and tv is watched constantly.

Bottom line: Our life styles make us the way we are basically. Weight creeps up and we aren't even aware until one day we wake up and we have a problem. There are many reasons people are over weight but one reason for me is over indulgence on high carb foods. Eating the wonderful high starched foods take their toll. Some people genetically have a weight problem, that wasn't me though. I love desserts and starches, love to bake bread and cinnamon rolls. Fresh cookies in the house weekly. It was a problem that I'm now trying to get my arms around.

JoAnn

[blonde1]

where is levi? BE CAREFUL OF STERIODS THEY ARE MORE HARMFUL THEN FAT. :read2:

[Hope1]

I don't know if you're going to see this post, Levi, and as above, I haven't read all of the posts but I have one burning question to ask you. Have you ever looked at people around you? Unless you live in the middle of some wierd genetic experiment I hate to break it to you but of course there are obese people living in Europe! You can go anywhere on this planet and easily lay your hands on McDonalds, Coke, and french fries. Obesity is no longer soley a North American problem. These "foods" stem from North American society but as the rest of the world is grasping eagerly for these nutritional atrocities many of us here are learning (the hard way) that the road to perdition is paved with Big Macs! Your arrogance is supersceded only by your insensitivity. Would you go up to someone in a wheelchair and ask, "Hey, dude, how come your legs are all shrivelled and weak. You should be astride the world like a Collosus just like me. Why are you in that wheelchair anyway? It's awfully unattractive." There are more reasons for the various physical states of humanity than there are human beings. You might want to open your eyes and take a good look around you...then again, I guess you wouldn't. I wish you luck...on second thought, no I don't. I wish you empathy. Not sympathy. Empathy. Hope1

[me again]

:devil: Oops, I think I stepped into a firestorm. :devil:

:nono: < slowly walks backwards, on tip toes, to exit the room > :nono:

[kathie w]

OK, Levi,
You seem to have opened a can of worms...you have scratched an itch that just won't stop itching...opened Pandora's box, as it were. Enough metaphors?

I'm half German, and my son loves Germany...he lived in Berlin for 6 months last year and just had such a great time. He seemed to feel that Europeans and Orientals had less obesity in their populations...He is currently visiting Korea, and has spent months in Japan as well. He is planning to go to London to record the rock group, Longview -- and he travels all over. My other son has spent months in Scandinavia, and is heading back to Finland next month. I don't get around much, but I ask questions and listen to the answers.

What I am seeing is multi-faceted, as are the responses you have received. First of all, people feel offended not because you "notice" they are fat, but because they know they are fat and are working very diligently at improving their health and appearance. OK? It seems insulting to criticize when someone is working on it. It would make more sense to criticize (if one must) if people are unwilling to look at themselves honestly and try to do something about it.

On another note, however, as many have said, they HAVE BEEN TRYING, via low fat diets...personally, every time I cut calories, my metabolism STOPS COLD. I have gained 5 pounds every year for 15 years. That's frightening - I mean TERRIFYING. I ask myself, when will it stop? North Americans are gaining weight by the droves, and if you read the research, we have gained this weight during a period of time that we have also cut our fat consumption to an all-time, historical LOW! OK? So, we have been misled. Who misled us? The government and the doctors. Why? I don't have a clue...are they just plain stupid?

I was recently told (can't verify it) that the "food pyramid" was devised by a bunch of government lawyers. Now look at it...basically grains and fruits and vegetables, low on fats!!! Yet if you look at what is WORKING for the lovely people who are working so hard in these forums, you will see high protein, high fat, low carbs. Across the board. And we are losing weight. Not wasting away -- losing our fat. Many of us are increasing our activity to build muscle mass which, of course, fires up our stalled-out metabolisms.

The comments about poor people = cheap food? YES, decidedly. Comments about fast food? Absolutely, they're poison. How about if we mention the beef/pork/chicken industries feeding our animals with chemicals and hormones which make humans retain water and gain weight? No one has mentioned that Americans lead very complex, busy lives. I am on summer vacation (teacher), and you wouldn't believe how busy I am...I have tenants to manage, classes to take, insurance to deal with, a husband with surgery to tend to, relatives to assist, yard work, household work, the mail to answer, the pool to clean, filing to do, materials to find for next year...the list is endless...oh, yes, the dentist last week and the optomitrist this week. And the retirement seminar out of town. We've gotta pick up our boat next week, and have a cruise scheduled after that...on and on...THE POINT? Sometimes we get so overwhelmed with must-do stuff, we just grab food on the run (hence the need for fast-food joints). It takes time to plan low-carb meals, shop for them, read the recipes, cook the food...add to it the time our forum folks spend online "keeping the faith" and motivating each other...I mean, Americans are busy...it's easy for many people to give in to the junk food.

You may argue that all this busy stuff is meaningless...much of life is. But there is much to take care of.

then, too, are those of us who got hooked on carbs...I mean, hooked. I don't even LIKE meat. If left to me, the menu is pasta. If potatoes are served, I can eat 3 helpings. If a bag of Cheetos are opened, they are half-gone in half an hour. But like folks in here have said, I'm always left "hungry" -- in fact, painfully hungry, stomach growling, faint, cranky, headachey...after carb ingestion. I am happy my friend told me about insulin resistance...I have a feeling I was well on my way (weigh) to diabetes, if I hadn't found low carbing.

What have I left out? Anger/frustration/fear as a result of being mentally, physically, or sexually abused. Yeah, that's real. Lots of different psychological stuff enters in, but I don't think that's what's "causing" most Americans to get large. I think the most harm has been done by the rich telling the poor to go on a fat-free diet. Because, bottom line, most of our obesity has resulted during the last 20 years when fat-free was in...

So, now, you got it, Levi?

We all know what our personal demons are. We don't need someone to point out that we have them. Just let us do our work, encourage us, and don't feel picked on because we're (a bit, somewhat, or incredibly) ashamed of ourselves and so take what you say personally. You see, we have, some of us, bought in to the idea, like you may have, that somehow we are "bad" little girls and boys. But we're really OK. As a fellow German, I realize we can come across as awfully judgmental. I think we need to focus on the positive.

By the way, if that's your picture (avatar), good for you. I guess you won't be needing our forums any more, eh?

Auf wiedersehn,
Kathie

[blonde1]

HOPE WELL SPOKEN. :clap:

[Hope1]

Thanks a lot, Blonde. All applause gratefully accepted but how about throwing money :lol: . I'm constantly amazed by the sheer number of twits inhabiting the world. Hope1

[badgoat]

I dunno about congratulations on that real or imagined avatar...perhaps we could start a thread named "How did you become SO self-absorbed?" I realize that sounds harsh but it gave me pause when I first saw this thread. We are no longer inner beings, but outer ones: what we drive, what we wear, how much $$ we make, where we work, went to college (*if* we went to college/grad school, # of degrees), etc. And most importantly -- how we look. It's not just Levi...we all buy into it to a greater or lesser extent. I pray though, that I never reach the other side of *that* "self esteem" coin.

I've heard it described as trying to fill a "God-shaped" hole in our lives...or spirit or whatever. That's what I think people are trying to do with food, sex, money, image, things. That's what I was missing.

So, is a pretty picture what I want to become now? I know from past experience it takes hours and hours in a gym to achieve and maintain that. Will I be a better person for it? In my younger days my answer was different. I saw myself as sexier, more desirable, and somehow more worthy...even "better than". Today, I have too many other things I enjoy doing than spending 2 hours a day, 6 days a week training with other body-obsessed people.

I will lose this weight and be healthier and feel better, maybe even live longer (if I don't get hit by a bus). I was trying to be something I thought I "should" be back then. I am all of that and more today...just fatter than I'd like. And that fat is coming off. But I wouldn't trade the other stuff for all the washboard abs in the world.

badgoat

[tinaninea]

Well, Levi, Thats A Good Question, And I Guess The Answer Is That I Was Just Young & Stupid. Obesity Runs In The Family & I Always Was And Still Am The Thinnest In The Family. I Guess Thats Something To Be A Little Proud Of - After All I've Already Beaten The Odds. But Your Question Is One That Needs To Be Asked, Because Americans Have Come To Believe That It's Okay To Be Overweight(real Women Have Curves) When In Fact It Is Not. One Of The Major Problems In America Is The All You Can Eat Buffet, What Is More Encouraging Than That? But I Think My Main Problem Started When I Met My Husband. Now I'm Not Trying To Bash Men, But I Worked Out At The Gym Everyday & I Just Dropped It After I Met Him. I Just Got Settled In I Guess. But Most Of All, America Keeps Pounding Their Peolpe To Eat Low Fat Low Calorie And All It Does Is Make You Hungrier. They Keep Telling Americans Low Carb Is Bad, But The Small Handful Of Us That Have Realized That It Is Not Are Making A Difference. If Not A Difference In The Country, At Least In The Home. NOW, I DON'T THINK IT'S MERELY A COINCIDENCE THAT OTHER COUNTRIES ARE "THINNER" THAN AMERICA. I BELIEVE THAT AMERICA HAS CLOSED IT'S EYES AND IS PRETENDING NOT TO NOTICE.

[rainne]

I loved your post, badgoat. You speak for me as well.

[scthgharpy]

I am not offended either-I often find myself wondering how on earth these SKINNY people stay warm! WHERE do they get their energy, and how could anyone find those bony bodies attractive and cosy to snuggle up with?!?

Having lived in Germany, I can probably offer a few suggestions, which are mostly cultural. Meals are mostly meats, and grocery stores in Germany are SMALL-you would be blown away by the grocery stores here-even the smallest ones have huge aisles filled with juices on one side, sugary cereals on the other. Two more aisles are all junk food and sodas. really.

Another cultural difference is that here, women, far more than in Europe, work away from the home. SO, these quick to prepare, often sugar based foods are the norm in most homes. We have lots latch key kids, who fill up on junk food at school and home when parents arent around, and Pizza Friday night (EVERYONE gets pizza on friday nights..its the biggest night for deliveries)

Consequently, we develop habits and food addictions and for the last 20 years they've been telling us carbs are GOOD, fats and proteins are BAD...which, of course, is wrong! Theres a lot of money in pitching a way of life that sells lots of diet products to overweight housewives, desperate to get back to prom-dress size. And the lo-fat program is IT!

People seem to have flamed you on this, and by seeing the 7 pages or so of responses, I see youve really kicked up some dust. The important thing to realize is that these people are learning and doing something about it. They are on the right track!

[RedheadFl]

You say ..."whenever i watch something on tv about the us, say a report from new york and they just show a street and some pedestrians there are SEVERAL poor guys or girls among them who look like 50% bf+"

Most of those people are foreigners on vacation in NY.

[Agafia79]

LOL RedheadFl

[jennyxcali]

Well I don't know about Adiposity 101 (prev. reply) but I sure know about A Dip Stick 101!

I am amazed that you would ask the question here. you can go anywhere on the web and find information regarding things like abuse, alcoholism/drug addiction, eating disorders/depression. The list is endless.

I will even give you an example. I will tell you why I am a lard ass.

I was always thin as a child, even after I had my first child. Then at the tender age of 23 I had 1 18 month old baby, 1 10 week old baby and my husband had just died. I was living in a foreign country and I had no one. That is not true. I befriended something called food. Now food loved me and I loved it. I had nothing else at the time. I expanded and put on alot of weight. Would everyone do that in my position, No. That's just what I did and how I coped, how I survived and managed to carry on.

People all have their own stories. Many people has anorexia but I don't see you asking them why they are so skinny

Jenny

[gawdess]

No offense taken...I have sat in the 220's since the age of 14 or 15....I think a lot of it had to do with hormonal changes in my body at that time....My body just never processed low fat~high carb diets well even with strict exersize..Hoping to see some improvements with the atkins approach

[RedheadFl]

Levi,
I did some research on those people you see on TV in NYC. You know, the tourists. Well, low and behold I was right! Guess where the majority of them are from? You guesses it.....Germany!
I also spoke with your Mom and she told me to tell you to STOP using your brothers PIC and impersonating him.

[jennyxcali]

You go girl!!!

Jenny

[jeanne48]

Dear Levi,

I guess because we can. :lol: No, your question did not offend me.

My question to you is how the people you describe in Germany avoid 300 lbs + (if your generalization is correct). I am of Austrian / Irish descent -- the people on my purely Austrian side are "big" people. So that could rule out a genetic difference.

However, I work with many Europeans (Germany and Austria). Many of them love to eat. I hear many of them also ride their bikes to work when able to. Can people generally avoid driving to work? I know the Europeans find the food here in America too cold, too sweet, and too soft.

I agree with many of the posts that say obesity is a sign of a poor diet. (What is your poverty rate in Germany?) Eating right is expensive, even more expensive than eating out in some instances. Processed and refined foods are everywhere. Even salt has sugar in it (processing). Is this not a problem in Germany? Do you fry your foods very much? We eat a lot of fried foods (er, not a LCer).

I don't find Europeans to have that many different emotional problems than we do. Some of America's problems may stem from a lack of a family network (we don't always grow up near our relatives and sometimes lead very private lives) -- food can become a consolation. Isolated people may become abusive without the proximity of family to support and yes, criticize them. On the other hand, sometimes lots of "love" and food make us fat. (Clean up your plate is an oft-used phrase.) Is it correct to generalize and say the most Germans grow up in the same community, whether or not they stay as adults?

Phew!!! Lots of questions and hypotheses. Let me know.

Take care,

Jeanne48

[CantEven]

This is an interesting question. One I have thought about since my husband is Swedish and myself a native New Yorker.

I lived a year in Sweden and although this doesn't make me an expert on the European way of life - here are my observations.

Again I am comparing what I observed in Sweden (Stockholm for the most part) to my life in New York. As many of us know, life from state to state, culture to culture and generation to generation can vary greatly.

Transporatation: Swedes bike many places as well as walk many places. Growing up we drove to the closest deli or supermarket to pick up milk, bread etc. In Sweden most people bike or walk to the local market. It's not uncommon to watch someone juggle a few bags of groceries on their bike handles in Sweden. I did also notice that in Sweden, markets were in closer proximity to homes than in New York. Walking to the market in Sweden would take me 10-15 minutes. If I walked to the closest deli in New York (suburbs just outside the city) it would take me a minimum of 30 minutes. Not very convenient. Swedes also tend to take public transportation compared to where I grew up. Taking the bus requires us for the most part to walk a few blocks to our final destination.

Food Quantity: Serving sizes in the States are much larger compared to most European countries. Compare restaurants portions and an American meal can be 3 times larger than a European counterpart. I often would hear my American friends come back from a trip to the States and they would comment on how they couldn't believe how they adjusted to smaller portions - especially things like "fast food" "super sizes". A sandwich to my husband is a slice of rye bread or some other dense whole grain bread with a slice of ham on it.That is it. I grew up in an Italian deli and if my grandfather served that to anyone as a sandwich - I'm sure the mob would be after him. (just kidding but you get my point)I think Americans really like to get a lot of "bang for their buck". Not always a bad thing - might I add. :roll:

Convenience foods: Although Europe is catching on to this trend, and in my opinion that's unfortunate. There is much more variety and use of prepackaged convenience foods here in the States. I know in Sweden there were about 10 cereal choices - most being muesli. In the States we have an aisle devoted to cereals of all kinds. That is just to give an example. The 50's in America was a time of convenience. It was a time where a lot of convenience foods were "created" for lack of better words, to help the housewives of America be better housewives. Unfortunately, that was one of those bad things done for all the right reasons. It was something that I believe did a lot more damage to us than good. However, that was part of the thinking of the time and some of that has stuck with us. How many of us American remember or have seen the commercials of that era speaking of how quick you could whip up a dinner with the help of ---- fill in the blank. We still have commercials. How about Macaroni and Cheese? A product that take a few minutes to make is even faster now with the help of "Easy Mac" and a microwave.

Advertising: Ahhhh - lies from advertisers -for example- juices that are really sugar water. Compared to Sweden there are many more commercials. Advertisers are paid to convince people that their product is superior and worth spending money on. If it takes some stretching of the truth - oh well. We literally "buy" into what we are told at times - innocently so. Sweden there are very few commercials - none geared towards children. Those little things make some differences.

Wealth: or lack there of... Convenience foods can be quite cheap. Where there is poverty there *can* be a lack of a good education. Some people whether from wealth or not - just honestly don't know that many of the foods they are eating are literally lacking any nutrients at all. Especially with such tricky to read food labels. That is a fun comparison. Food labels in Europe compared to the States. In the States we are allowed to use so many phrases on our labels that deceive the buyer. Like "cholesterol free" - "light" - "heart healthy" - but what do these labels mean in the States? Well sorry I fell back on advertising..... Sweden has socialism therefore the basic philosophy is that all deserve the same - no better - no worse. There aren't gourmet expensive foods in Sweden. In general, the wealthy eat the same as the not so wealthy. Organic? Most of the products are made of high quality ingredients and do not cost much more than the rest of what is on the shelf. If I recall correctly organic milk is a few kronar more. Yogurt was not made with more sugar than yogurt - LOL. In the States we have "organic", "grass-fed", "sugar free" etc. I'm not saying that variety is bad but it can get a little crazy reading food labels at times and trying to decifer what is worth putting in your mouth - not to mention that some of these products are way over many people's financial budgets.

These are just some of the differences I have noticed. I think the above play a role in obesity in America and many parts of the world. Everyone is different and has different experiences. These are just some of mine. I blame some of the above for my weight issues but ultimately my weight is in my control and I must do what I now know is best for me. For me it is cutting back on carbs and cutting out most if not all refined foods. For me it means going from a relatively sedentary lifestyle to an active lifestyle including exercise and social activities. It's changing old habits.

As they say: "Old habits die hard." But, I am willing to try!

It's the weeee hours of the morning for me - so please forgive my grammar and spelling. :angel:

~Danielle

[alaskaman]

I had a vision the other day - imagined the aisles at the supermarket having turnstiles of various sizes. The one to the cereals, pop tarts etc would be about 9" wide - you couldn't get thru unless you weighed about 85 lbs. Ditto for the pasta, rice, macaroni and cheese, etc. The aisles with meat, eggs, cheese, etc would be normal - 36" or two axehandles or whatever. Would be sort of self regulating. The people who could initially get into the carb aisles wouldn't be able to after a while. The People who could only get into the protein/fat aisles would after a while be able to the the carb aisles but not for long.

[TinaH315]

I don't know if any of you watch Oprah and her story on losing weight, but I think this is where Americans' main problem is and that is the whole issue with emotional eating. I know what I should and shouldn't eat, I know that I should go to the gym every day, but I still pick on food when I am bored or lonely or depressed. Food can be considered a drug to some people, and I don't think that someone that is not so familiar with the American culture should be on a SUPPORT forum. We are here to encourage each other, not ponder over condescending questions that only make people feel worse. At the end of this conversation, do you think that you are supporting the 200+ and 300+ people? Does it make you feel better about yourself? Ok, I did not want this to be a negative response, but I guess I am a little sensitive to this topic, coming from eating disorders (basically imposed from my family in Greece, who used to torture me with fat jokes as a child).
Levi-
you look good, so why don't you just go on the bodybuilding forums and make some friends there

[alaskaman]

Hey, Tina - you are so right. There is a huge emotional component to food, and not just eating it. I realized the other day I have a great need to feed and comfort my family, think up nice recipes and have them enthuse over the meal. And if they don't i get frightfully angry and down. I guess I want them to react the way I did to my mom's cookies and pies and such. I guess we need to find some way to do nice stuff for ourselves that does not involve food. But meanwhile there's a bunch of self-righteous people who look down on anyone with a weight or matabolism problem.Including a lot in the healthcare field. My greatuncle used to taunt my grandfather - "George, if I ever got as fat as you, I'd roll around this ranch on my belly til it was gone." Poetic justice - he got obese. Gramps always greeted him with, "Start rolling, John, start rolling."

[Fietser]

That was so funny alaskaman "start rolling"
I've just been to both Norway and Sweden and my image of how handsome the Norwegians are was slightly shattered. They smoke, they drink.. however, few of them are obese.
The Swedes generally were a bit more handsome than the Norwegians (hey, I'm a single girl), however, when I visited the most popular amusement park in Göteborg, I noted quite a few really obese people waddling around. They could have been Americans. I also made my stay in the park my cheat day as it was just next to impossible to buy low-carb-food there.. I wanted to indulge guilt-free.
But really, sweet or deep-fried food was everywhere. We Europeans are catching up with you in the USA. Just like with anything else... more women have full-time jobs nowadays without time to cook. Convenience meals are being bought more and more... and yes, some of our urban schools also start forbidding kids to come to school by bike or on foot. This is a very rare minority but it does happen. And so on, and so on...

You just wait, Germany and the UK is next in line after the USA. And then, you Americans can say like Alaskaman's grandfather "start rolling, you Europeans, start rolling"!

Fietser

[CantEven]

They smoke, they drink.. however, few of them are obese.....Fietser

Overconsumption of alchohol has been a problem in the Scandinavian countries for quite some time. Other than saying that, I'll stop since it will pull us way off topic.


The Swedes generally were a bit more handsome than the Norwegians (hey, I'm a single girl),.....Fietser

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - as the saying goes. Although I think physical appearence is important - such as neatness and grooming, I'd rather judge a person on their emotional, spiritual and intillectual content - as well as treatment of me. I have dated some very handsome men by many people's standards and after a few months of being with them and noticing their lack of "inner content" - they literally became ugly in my eyes. This is not to say that handsome people are the only ones lacking in areas - just that one can't judge on beauty alone. For that matter what is beauty, 120lbs, 350lbs, blue eyes, red hair....people who wear baggy jeans...people who wear tailored suits? Again, in the eye of the beholder. That is just my opinion - I'm not judging yours.

The Scandinavian stereotype is tall, thin and blonde. It's just that a stereotype. Not *all* Scandinavians are tall, thin or blonde. My husband is tall, has a few pounds to lose according to the crazy world of "weight loss" and a brunette with brown eyes. Of course, to me, he is the best looking man in the world. :thup:

...however, when I visited the most popular amusement park in Göteborg, I noted quite a few really obese people waddling around. They could have been Americans. ... Fietser

Or, they could have been Greek, Russian, Inuit, Norwegian.... OR Maybe Swedish since you were in Sweden. They could have been anybody. Sweden has a large population of immigrants as well as many tourists. Does it matter? Sorry, maybe you didn't mean for that to come across the way I took it - judgemental in a negative way towards Americans.

...I also made my stay in the park my cheat day as it was just next to impossible to buy low-carb-food there.. I wanted to indulge guilt-free.
But really, sweet or deep-fried food was everywhere. We Europeans are catching up with you in the USA. Just like with anything else... more women have full-time jobs nowadays without time to cook. Convenience meals are being bought more and more... and yes, some of our urban schools also start forbidding kids to come to school by bike or on foot. This is a very rare minority but it does happen. And so on, and so on...

You just wait, Germany and the UK is next in line after the USA. And then, you Americans can say like Alaskaman's grandfather "start rolling, you Europeans, start rolling"!Fietser

I agree that processed foods are making there way around the world and I personally believe it is having a negative impact. You can read about this in many Paleolithic "diet" books. Ex PaleoDiet, Neanderthin.

I found the European/American diet comparison interesting because I found that many European countries still have eating habits reminicent of how Americans once ate. Less prepackaged refined foods, sitting together at the dinner table etc..just to give a small example. I feel this is one aspect of the "obesity epidemic" that plagues many countries.

Again, it is different for everyone. I have had times where I felt guilt over my bad choices - but I also feel I have been misled, in some ways, about what is truly healthy. Just my opinion which doesn't make it right. (Although I like to think sometimes it is :roll: )

I know that this can be a touchy subject. I hope my responses have not offended anyone. I am obese and have been overweight almost my entire life. As you can see, I speak from experience and, trust me, the compasion I have for anyone who is struggling with "weight issues".

I think this is a great board because it educates as well as motivates all of us despite our weight and/or health to create even healthier lifestyles.

~Danielle

[Fietser]

Hey Danielle, I agree.. beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Yet, I've always been so critical about my own obesity that I just can't get excited over obese men myself.. sorry. I've finally discovered the 'holy grail' .. low-carbing that is (first really low-carbing which didn't fit into my active lifestyle) and now more like the Paleodiet you mentioned. Still, it is extremely difficult to get down to a healthy 25% BF (went down from 38% to now 27%) because of PCO-syndrome.

But I just thought to share my experiences.. I had been in Norway as far back as 17 years ago and always remembered the men and women as handsomely blonde, but they are brown and red! And now I've taken up weightlifting I'm looking at people much more closely than before. I do notice that some big women have tremendous sex appeal (somehow obese men hardly have this) and some thin women none at all...

Anyway... the OP is no longer here but the thread is too interesting to let it die. Just wanted to tell, that we Europeans who vindicate (?)the Americans like Alaskaman's greatuncle did to A's grandfather, will discover to their horror that it is happening here just as well. Take heart... not that it is a good thing, but still

Fietser

[pegva]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


And then there's the Other saying:
"Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder!"
:lol:

[CantEven]

>>PegVa: And then there's the Other saying:
"Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder!"<<


LMAO = Laugh My Abs Off!!!! :lol:

~Danielle

[gordholio]

Dear Levi and Everyone,

I can understand the question and that some may take offence by how it was stated - although I didn't.
I gradually became "rounder" up until the age of 14, when I weighed in at about 165 and 5'0" tall (Grade 9).
After Grade 9, during the summer holidays, I went on a low-cal (800 calories/day) diet and lost about 40 lbs in 4 months. When I went back to school, people hardly recognized me.
Later in life, at the age of 25, I was diagnosed with schizophrenia and subsequently depression. After 3 hospital admissions, I came to live in a group home.
At the time, I needed to have support and this home provided that for me - but, it also made it easy to eat large portions (2 and sometimes 3 helpings) of carbohydrate-laden foods (in addition to protein and fat).
Well, guess what? My weight skyroketed from about 160 lbs to about 260 lbs within a year and a half.
After this "high point" (later I would reach another high point) of 260, I went on a vegetarian low-fat diet and went down to 211 lbs.
During the ensuing 6 years, I have struggled with my weight, going back up to 260 lbs and then in January 2002 getting back under 200 lbs to about 190 lbs.
During this time, my mental illness was with me, but I went off my prescribed medication. This was an UNwise decision. My reasoning was that I didn't like the side effects (made me "zombieish" and I thought I would be okay without it.
It took about 3 1/2 years, but I became ill again in March 2002.
Subsequently, I lost my job, but fortunately was put back on a different medication (willingly).
However, after about 1 year of being unemployed and on medication - and eating a "balanced" diet, I managed to accumulate an extra 88 lbs and was now 278 lbs (my new high point) in March of this year.
Then, I researched and heard about the Atkins diet and went on it March 26, 2003.
Since then, I have been very faithful to it, although recently I've started drinking a bit of caffeinated coffee and diet Cokes. But, it seems no harm has been done, as I'm still losing weight at the same rate.
As of today, August 9, 2003, I've lost 52 lbs - I'm down to 226 lbs and I'm feeling much better with more energy and a brighter outlook on life.
So, that's how I got really overweight. But, I'm on my way to my goal of 160 lbs.

Gord

[ItsTheWooo]

For me it was a combination of factors, which i will list in order of perceived signifigance.

1) Apathy regarding life and my health.
I was deeply, deeply depressed for most of my teenage years, and up until recently (I am 21 now). I honestly did not care whether i lived or died, sometimes wanting so badly to kill myself... so you can imagine how important what size my clothes were and how grotesque my body had become were to me. As any depressed person will tell you, the destructive actions you do while in depression only makes the depression worse, and its like a really bad downward spiral. I don't know what it was, but half a year ago i realized i had to do something. I wasnt going to become undepressed and motivated by magic, and no one was pushing me, so it was my responsibility to force myself to make an effort to stop the cycle down the spiral.

2) Poor upbringing.
My mother was also obese (200 pounds, 5'5), and taught her children to use food as a tool or entertainment object. She never established healthy eating habits, or made an attempt to curb developing poor eating habits. Even as a child i was pretty overweight, but she just didnt care. My childhood was miserable because of being overweight, which set me up for depression and obesity as a teen/adult. In a lot of ways i kind of blame my mother for the problems i am having now, but i try to tell myself she had her own problems (she was depressed) and she did the best she could.

3) Genetic predisposition.
There are certain members of my family who are naturally thin with faster metabolisms, and then there are people like me and my mother with slow metabolisms and a more severe insulin reaction. But this is a small contributing factor compared to how unhealthy our lifestyle and eating habits were.

There you have it. Thats how i became obese, and hopefully in a month or two i will not be obese anymore :D (just like 15 lbs till i am "overweight")
But, every person is different and every story is different, so don't stereotype all fat people ok :)

[ItsTheWooo]

As for why i feel americans in general are more overweight than other nationalities...

1) Poor behavior towards food and moderation.
America glorifies a "feels good then do it" mentality. America has, for decades now, slowly seeing its moral fiber eroding away... people do not take personal responsibility like they used to.
Americans will eat what tastes good, and they will not think about the consequences in the future. This is why many americans are not only fat, but they can't lose it (98% of people fail the battle with obesity). They not only make poor food choices (and become fat), but have poor ability to handle responsibility (and frequently fail diets).

2) Higher ethnic minority concentration.
Evolution is a very important factor in dietary tolerance. It is important to note the caucasian peoples in the mediterranean, north africa and europe, as well as east asians evolved as grain harvesters. They have a better tolerance for refined grains, than do those whos cultures omitted grains like indigenous indians to the americas (mexians, nas, etc), and african americans. These groups have a more severe insulin reaction to refined carbohydrate/grain, and therefore also have a much higher incidence of diabetes as well. "Insulin-impared" ethnicity people make up almost 25% of our population.

3) Larger class gaps.
Our poorest members are relatively way more poor than the poorest members of european countries. Since poor americans are so far down the social status ladder, as a group they are usually isolated from opportunites to be educated, and learn crucial social/living skills like delaying short term gratification for long term satisfaction down the road. So you find, poor people are not only very fat but either:
a) totally ignorant regarding why they became fat (due to poor education) and/or
b) see no reason to change (due to poor planning ability)

There are many, many exceptions, as individuals are all different, but i feel the uniquely american elements outlined above are the biggest reason we are much fatter than other countries.

[fairchild]

Saw this today-think its perfect for this thread!

French Secrets to Staying Slim

U.S. and French Portion Sizes Vary Vastly

By Jeanie Lerche Davis
Reviewed By Michael Smith, MD
on Friday, August 22, 2003
WebMD Medical News

August 22, 2003 -- How can the French stay so slim, with all those luscious croissants, cheeses, pastries, and sauces?

A new study brings home what's known as "the French Paradox." Despite France's rich cuisine, the French are decidedly slimmer than Americans. Only 7% of French people are obese, compared with 30% of Americans.

A group of scientists set out to investigate this phenomenon -- comparing French and American foods, restaurants, cookbook recipes, even eating styles. The French secrets to staying slim provide lessons to Americans on losing weight.

Sizing Things Up

Researchers weighed portions at 11 similar eateries in Paris and Philadelphia -- fast-food outlets, pizzerias, ice cream parlors, and ethnic restaurants.

* The average portion size in Paris was 25% smaller than in Philly.
* Chinese restaurants in Philly served meals that were 72% bigger than Parisian Chinese restaurants.

They looked at foods sold in supermarkets:

* A candy bar in Philadelphia was 41% larger than the same candy bar sold in Paris.
* A soft drink was 52% larger, and a hot dog was 63% larger.
* A carton of yogurt was 82% larger.

Even American cookbook recipes -- from The Joy of Cooking -- produced larger portions than the French cookbook, Je sais cuisiner. Larger meat and soup portions, and smaller vegetable portions, were in the American cookbook than the French.

Also, Parisians spent 22 minutes on average dining at their McDonald's, compared with the 14 minutes that Philadelphians spent on their burgers, fries, and soft drinks.

"The results suggest ... that if served somewhat less than they would normally eat, people may be satisfied," reports lead researcher Paul Rozin, PhD, a psychologist with the University of Pennsylvania. His study appears in the September issue of the journal Psychological Science.

Savor, Don't Stuff

Indeed, it's a cultural issue. Americans are getting exactly what they want -- value for their dollar, regardless of taste, says Sheah Rarback, RD, nutritionist and professor at the University of Miami School of Medicine.

They'll never lose weight that way.

The portions that are served in France -- people in this country wouldn't buy them," she tells WebMD. "People here wouldn't be satisfied."

It's time either to start cooking more at home, or at least eat smaller portions when dining out, Rarback says. "We need to get back to savoring the food we're eating, demanding foods that are flavorful. We need to enjoy the food and the company, instead of just wolfing the food down and barely even noticing the taste."

One suggestion: Ask for a take-out box when your meal arrives. Put half the dinner away immediately, even before your fork hits the plate. You can lose weight, one meal at a time.

SOURCES: Psychological Science, September 2003. Sheah Rarback, RD, a nutritionist and professor at the University of Miami School of Medicine. Cynthia Sass, RD, private-practice dietitian,Tampa, spokeswoman, American Dietetic Association. WebMD Medical News, "30% of Americans Are Obese."


© 2003 WebMD Inc. All rights reserved.
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[kimberlyw]

i really am curious to know how it could happen that you end up 300+ lbs as a male or 200+ as a female.

Somehow, after I was pregnant, I suddenly had adrenal gland (nebennieren) problems which caused me to have to take high doses of steroids to regulate my adrenaline production.

Even with 30 minutes *hard* bicycle riding daily, I gained weight. I gained it all over a 6 month period of being on medication. My normal weight is 73 kg - I am exactly 100 now.

Off the meds now - thankfully - well off the steroids and on different meds - so losing the weight.

Finally, I don't know too many people with "Obesity" who get that way from just eating all the time. Most people I know who are obese have actual *verifiable* medical conditions which lead to obesity if not recognized and treated.

[Monika4]

Levi claims that extreme fitness addicts as well as extreme obesity are
a US phenomenon. I think he is wrong- I should know - I am from Germany, and recently spent another year there after 15 years US. The US
is a more tolerant society, and those in Germany who are
300+ lbs are simply not daring to show themselves on the streets because
they will so constantly be stared at and be approached by
strangers with criticism, they don't dare! I know some of them!
Similarly the society does not take well to runners (although
THAT is changing), and a runner will not be left running in peace.

[toning_up]

I am from another country originally. I've been here 6 years and love the place.

My very first overwhelming impressions however were:


1)What incredibly beautiful big white straight teeth the population generally, had.

2) How overweight the population generally, was. I'd never seen so many very very large people before. I mean 350+ lbs. No offense intended...it's just a fact. The remainder seemed strangely underfed and skinny....like perhaps they might be starving themselves to perfection.

3) The truely gigantic portions in restaurants. I'd never seen anything like it. A portion would feed 2 or 3 where I came from in a restaurant.

I was a normal weight when I got here 6 years ago. Now I've snuck on 30 lbs. I did have child but I have always returned to the small size after birth. This time I haven't and I guess for me the main culprit has been coming to think portions sizes offered here are normal. I've just spent 6 year plain eating too much. No excuses, no blame except on me. I'm LCing but also training my mind that a healthy portion is actually very very much smaller than I have been eating and actually, smaller than the recommended "portion" on the box or package.

[LondonIan]

Wh are having a similar, serious obesity problem in the UK and are beginning to approach similar levels to the US.

Why? Well I think that an increasing reliance on take-away (take out) fast foods - especially among teenagers - is the biggest problem. In the borough I live in 40% of all households are single occupancy. How often does a single person decide to get take away rather than cook? Lots and Lots!!!

Ian

[perbain]

:) I'm glad you asked this question. As a person who is accepting responsibility for my physical fatness, I will tell you.
Growing up rather poor, I ate alot of carbo rich foods. As a child, I was unable to choose, but as an adult I had the choice and the money, I just did not do what I intrinsically knew was the right thing to do. I continued to eat carb rich food because in the United States these are considered comfort foods. Our society is based on food. Everywhere you turn, you see food ads. Food = happiness according to the advertizing we are bombarded with constantly. Sad reality is, the only people happy about our eating all this carbo rich food, are the suppliers and bankers.
People in the United States work an average of 6 days a week, anywhere from 8-12 hours a day. Now that in itself is not bad, but when you understand that any free time left is devoted with other responsibilities, you can also understand how easy it is to get trapped into the fast food drive up window that is offered at most food establishments. We know the food quality is low, but its fast and convienant for most of us.
It takes a real effort to say, "I will take the time and take charge of the food that goes into me." I guess I can only say in truth, that I had to get sick and tired of being sick of fat on my body. I read most of the responses to your question, and I'm sorry for the people who were rude to you. In our society, food is pushed down our throats, but fat people are constantly ridiculed and put down. I think the individuals who answered you with anger thought it was another put down.
I thought perhaps you are doing some sort of study, so I answered you the best and as truthful as I could. I hope this is what you were looking for and are satisfied.

[kyrasdad]

The original poster isn't around, but answering him isn't a bad exercise. I realize his question was petulant in nature, and it wasn't really designed to get information. However, within the vicious nature of the question lies a good topic, despite the intention of it.

I've been grappling with this question, though, for years. How did I let it get this far? I don't know. I struggle with how I got this way, and then how I decided to remove myself from the situation.

I try to compare it to other self destructive behaviors -- alcoholism, smoking, drugs, etc. Those are given disease status, but fat is considered a character flaw. I don't know if I buy into that wisdom, either way. I refuse to consider my condition a disease outside my control. Clearly that isn't the case. The fact that I've dropped 48 pounds illustrates that I do have control.

The other extreme is to believe that I'm damaged goods. That inside me somewhere, there's a hurt being, a flawed soul -- something that has rotted my health and ruined my first 40 years of life with a terrible punishment. If you follow this line of thinking, it's a weakness that tells others to remove the weak member of the tribe (I think this is where the intense hatred of the fat comes from). We are weak, and weakening the rest of society, the reasoning behind the loathing goes.

But if it is a character flaw, how was it healed for those who have beaten it? Most character flaws aren't healable -- people tend to be what they are. They really do not change very often.

Me, I think it was a combination of bad genetic luck, bad ideas, and apathy. I didn't care. Few others cared about me, and I decided to join them. I'm lifelong fat, but I wasn't truly obese until 1993 or so, when the pounds started piling on at an alarming rate. I had Graves Disease, then hypothyroidism as my gland burned out. It played havoc with my weight and appetite.

These things combined to help me make myself very fat. Both were inside my control, ultimately. Together, apathy and biology were very powerful, and I let them have their way. But like our first poster in this thread, they have faded as I got stronger. I'm beating them now.

I got SO obese through weakness and biology, then. I get SO much support and SO many good ideas here, though, that it's worth it to suffer through the musings of people like Levi.

[FromVA]

kyrasdad:I wasn't truly obese until 1993 or so, when the pounds started piling on at an alarming rate. I had Graves Disease, then hypothyroidism as my gland burned out. It played havoc with my weight and appetite.



How odd...that is exactly what happened to me, but not until a few years later. The combination of the Graves and hypothyroidism threw me into very early menopause and I ended up being diagnosed as the result of a "thyroid storm". It was an experience I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy and it has taken me years to recover my health. One of the nasty little side effects was severe depression, which lasted a number of years. I gained most of my weight after the "thyroid storm", although it had been creeping up before. As my thyroid went bad, even though I had Graves, I absolutely could not get the weight off, regardless of near-starvation (on my endocronoligist recommened and supervised LF/LCal, 600 calorie a day diet) and relentless exercise. Then I just flat gave up. Thank goodness I found Dr. Atkins!! I hope your journey along this WOE/WOL is as successful as mine.

[tholian8]

I try to compare it to other self destructive behaviors -- alcoholism, smoking, drugs, etc. Those are given disease status, but fat is considered a character flaw.

There is quite an argument over the "disease" status of addictive behaviors, and not one that is going to be resolved any time soon.

[pd Rydia]

Rather after-the-fact, I find that the original post was offensive...but I wasn't particularly offended. Particularly after reading the second post by Levi, I agree with Lisa in MD about this guy. But since people have managed to turn an attempt to troll into a meaningful discussion anyway...

I don't consider myself "SOO obese." But I did gain more weight than I wanted, and 90% of it can be attributed to a mood stabilizer I was put on several months ago. It saved my life, but made me balloon from 170 to almost 240.

Went to my physician hoping to get diet pills, which worked for my Mom, and wound up with a "prescription" for Atkins. And I'm still workin' on it.

[bfritz_pa]

Gee Levi,

I think I was brainwashed into believing that llittle Fat and Protein plus Lots of Carbs were good for me.

Interesting theory??? I guess that's why I joined this support forum.

[cls923]

Levi...you have a lot of posts to catch up on...Where did you go????

[pd Rydia]

Trolls don't stick around when they don't get the reaction they want. ;P

[theshoe23]

Why am I so fat? (Didn't someone ask the "Lisa-God" about that on The Simpsons?) One answer, I was a sensitive (depressed) child and I ate alot of food, all kinds of food, but the carbs I believe kept this cycle up. Because now that I'm Lc'ing I eat MUCH MUCH less and don't even notice it.

[Nancy LC]

One thing I noticed, in Europe they use mass transit a lot more than they do here in most cities. That means lots of walking to/from the metro/tube/whatever. In France, it means endless stair climbing!

Here I think we have fewer built-in requirements for exercising. Our mass transit generally is pretty bad. We get up, have long sedentary commutes to work, sit at work all day, have long commutes home, then fall into bed exhausted!

I'd love to have mass transit available to the places I need to go.

[Dr.Ray]

I was always a big kid, fat parents who were carb addicts of a different sort .. alcohol

Im 42, fat kids were the rare exception and I was certainly exceptional, rejected, lonely, watching couples mingle and kiss and it just drove me insane with hate and jealosy

weight watchers just made me HUNGRY, didnt get a grip on it til I was 21 and did cambridge, lost a LOT but lost hair and it was bad, I was working out so I was built like a truck, but I was going BALD it was scaring me so I stopped

25, crushed in an accident, couldnt walk, couldnt do much of anything, back broken in two places, wieght ballooned to 850

30 going into heart failure, admitted to hospital

found sleep apnea

woke up in a 850 pound body, good morning!

walked and did low fat, high fiber, didnt care about carbs just fiber, more the better, which although I ddint realize it at the time, was the glycemic index in subtle form

36 lost enough to go to college, psychology major, top awards in english dept

42 graduation looms, I want to get 50 off at least, and ALL Of it off to go to my profession, one of a pediatric obesity specialist

2006 - come sign my books, Ill be famous :D

[pattiwoods]

Dr. Ray, what an amazing story! This is Day One of my trying to get my life back on track in terms of health (after many failed attempts). Reading your brief weight story inspires me with hope that I can do something about my situation. With fortitude and support, I hope that I can make it this time. And, yes, I'll buy your book in 2006.

Levi, everyone has their own story as to how they got to 300+. You've heard many here. My own story is one of emotional abuse as a child (raised by a clinically narcissistic single parent) resulting in a food addiction to "feel better." It's amazing how many times my brain has actually told me that M&Ms will make everything all right. However, I believe the bigger issue here is that this original posting occurred in the Triple Digits Club. For those of you who are not armed with the answers to understand our problems, please realize that the Triple Digits Club is a safe haven where we go to escape being judged. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be judged for the predicament that we are in -- I'm just saying that we need a tiny place in the world to feel safe and hopefully address our issues that no one else may understand. Perhaps we can solve/heal these issues together. But having our space violated does not provide the support that we need. You say "no offense" and yet you capitalize "SO obese" in your title. If you are truly curious rather than judgmental, you wouldn't have done this. Even if you don't understand or respect us, please respect our need to have one little room that doesn't contain bullies.

[pd Rydia]

Best of luck, Dr. Ray.

[elmuyloco5]

I'm not offended by the post on here either. Rather, I would like to know how you (and many other people) stay thin! I don't think I'm fat because I'm a lazy slob that sits around and eats bon bons every day. Quite frankly, I don't get to sit much at all, infact me being on the web at all today is a miracle in my home. As an at home mom of three (ages 5, 3, and 2) and a homeschooler, I am a very busy woman.

I too used to be very thin. I modeled my way through college, but after I became pregnant, my life changed. I gained 5lbs more than considered normal on my first pregnancy, but only a few months later was pregnant again. I miscarried and was pregnant again in a couple more months. With this pregnancy something went wrong. I had a disorder that made me produce too much amniotic fluid (only the doctors didn't know until I delivered). I suffered three herniated discs and was placed in a wheelchair for over half of the pregnancy. Inbetween my pregnancies I would starve myself to lose weight. Then I was pregnant again only 5 months out from my second child. And again, two more herniated discs and back in a wheelchair. Each time more and more weight gain with no way to work it off. After my third child was born, I lost 50 lbs on the Atkins plan. But then, 30 lbs flew back on in a month without even a change in my diet or exercise. I have no clue why. As the years went on, I gained more and more while I dieted and ate very little, until I now weigh almost as much as I did nine months pregnant with my last child.

Sure, there is a small amount of people out there that gorge on food in rediculous amounts. And for some reason, these are the obese people that are always put on tv. The general public assumes we are all this way, and for that matter why don't we just stop what we're doing? Do we say these things to a drug addict? But the truth is , most fat people don't eat 5 hamburgers, 6 cartons of fries, and thee shakes at a sitting. Infact, we probably don't eat much different than you Levi. Read Dr. Atkin's book and he cites studies backing my statements up. Most of us have problems with our metabolism. We are so efficient in processing food that we store up excess fat cells. There are many theories on why obese people do this. No one has the one true and complete answer for everyone, or face it, we would all be thin by now. Most of us diet like crazy and actually hurt ourselves and gain back all the weight (and more). You also have to include the emotional factors. It isn't easy being fat. You are ridiculed, often seen as a lower class of society. We even get very cruel remarks from our loved ones. Obesity is a DISEASE! Just like alcoholism. Only alcoholics aren't told to beat their addiction by drinking small amounts of alcohol three times a day. You can live WITHOUT alcohol. You can't live without food. Thin people, and even people who have lost minor amounts of weight in the course of their lives, have no idea the stress and guilt and self loathing that goes along with this disease. It's often harder to overcome these things than lose the pounds themselves.

And quite frankly, for the general public and every doctor that gave me a hard time about my weight in the past, being fat doesn't mean you are that unhealthy. I know I'll be slammed for this, but it's true. My cholesterol is fantastic (infact better than what is considered normal good values), my liver, gallbladder, pancreas, and heart are all in perfect condition as well. I am an extremely muscular person (some of the reason that I look as large as I do) and quite healthy. I'm just large and would like to change that fact. I'm sure I'm not the only one out there like this. Not that obesity doesn't cause problems, but they don't always travel hand in hand.

I appologize that this is so long, but I felt I needed to say it. God bless all of you out there working hard at this. Maybe one day, people will understand us and our struggles.

[pattiwoods]

You go, girl!

[flynnlee]

i wasn't offended by his question either.

it's actually an interesting subject to do a study on.

if it helps, i'll give you my personal story, tho i'm sure the board is sick of hearing it! i'll post it anyway, those who want to can scroll on down...

anyway, when i was a freshman in college i was 130lbs. then i discovered i LIKED food a bit too much, and gained the freshman 15 and stayed at about 150 for a year or two. then, my thyroid went kaput, and i ballooned up to 200lbs and couldn't stay awake, i slept for 48hours on the weekends, only getting up to go to the bathroom, i had a small bald spot on my head, i was bitchy to my parents and irritable, and i never wanted to socialize(sp?)... it made it very hard to stick to an eating plan, and i didn't know i had hypothyroidism, i thought i was lazy and would eat to stuff my feelings...i think that's where a LOT of people get into trouble; they use food to celebrate, to stuff depression down, like a drug almost...i know i did. then, of course, in a nutshell i got the right meds, dropped 35lbs by changing my lifestyle(i felt BETTER so i COULD change it and i knew i was sick, not lazy) and except for a few bad weeks here and there, atkins is basically a lifestyle.

i know several others out there who have stories similar to mine -- and hypothyroidism is more common than one would think, believe it or not.

hope this helps squelch your curiosity! this is a great board to come to to ask questions... gee, my spelling is awful tonight!!

[flynnlee]

elmuy

have u had your thyroid checked? it might help...i tell EVERYONE to get it checked because it is often a problem so overlooked...

[elmuyloco5]

Thanks for asking....

yeah I did. I did real well losing weight after my last child was born (50lbs) but then all of a sudden in a month I put on 30lbs. I started losing my hair. I had no change to diet or exercise, and to put it lightly, I was scared to death. I ended up at an endocrinologist as I found out I have a brain tumor. One of my thyroid glands is very enlarged they said and so I went through a battery of tests. I've been told my thyroid is fine, although they can't figure out why it is so enlarged. And my brain tumor is non-functioning (which means it's not producing hormones....it is in my pituitary gland). I go every year to have it measured for growth. And according to the docs, I'm good and healthy (no explanation for the weight gain). So I plod on.

WHen I lost the weight I was doing Atkins, but found out that I got the opposite of the regular constipation that most people get, and so I figure I need a few more carbs to handle it.

Now I'm doing a tweeked Atkins/carbohydrate addicts plan. I'm eating only protein and good carbs at two meals and then I eat some carbs.....but ones that I've homemade with almond flour (low carb). I also make low carb cheesecakes and such. I eat those for my CAD Reward Meal....although it's all low carb and quite frankly ok for the non-reward meals. I use Atkin's recipes and CAD recipes too. I just don't know where you would say that I fall cause I really only get around 20-30 carbs a day anyway. When I first did atkins, I didn't eat any carbs...it was all meat and cheese and it just killed me inside.

[TwilightZ]

Going back to maybe my junior high school years I used to sneak into the kitchen after everyone had gone to bed, and eat. My mother was a lousy cook (cans, frozen food, never anything fresh) and while it's not all her fault, I can say that I was seldom satisfied at the end of a meal and often envied my friends whose mothers cooked real food.

In college I ate at night. At first it was just to offset the usual stresses of school, but later it was to help forget about already being fat. Then in the past 30 years it just became simple overeating and out and out addiction to carbs. I am the person who eats multiple hamburgers and fries. I am the person who eats an entire pie or an entire box of cereal at one sitting. I have my secret favorite places to purchase the absolute best-tasting baked goods and sweets of every kind, and have sneaked out of the house at all hours to satisfy the craving. I have been up and down on diets and have exhibited the most amazing self-control at times, but have always fell off the wagon and resumed my addicition, and as is common, each time with higher weight gain. Remarkably, my health has remained fairly good, which I attribute to luck and the fact that I eat good food as well as bad. In addition to the misery of being fat, the constant lying, hiding and covering up makes you feel even more miserable.

I would never be so naive as to state categorically that I will never fail again, but after just two months of eliminating all grains and starch, subsisting on only protein and saturated fat, with perhaps a cup of leafy greens or cruciferous veg at dinner, aside from dropping from 285 to 250, the seborrheic dermatitis and snowfall dandruff that has plagued me my entire life is virtually gone, warts and growths are disappearing, and I feel better than I've ever felt--and I've still got a long way to go. I hope that the improved health will discourage me from sliding back into my old ways.

[rachelratz]

Thanks to the Atkins diet I am very thin now and have stayed that way. Infact, I've become one of those people you used to hate, because I eat anything now and never seem to gain. I got heavy (never obese...just heavy) because of bread and pasta and dumplings. Obesity does run in my family and my brothers and sisters are fat. I was always the small one of the three siblings, being female, 5'4" and being 145 lbs. Now i'm 114 lbs and they have resisted the Atkins diet and have remained fat.

My mother was a wonderful cook. Being poor did not help, the starchy foods were cheap and good. I remeber eating mashed potato, corn on cob nearly every day.

At work, we have Indian co workers who are thin and never eat meat, only veggies. One of them is a Jane (a small ethnic group in India) who never eats onions, garlic or roots of every kind (no potato, no carrots, etc) and of course no meat. Now I can understand why he is thin because of no starch...but the onions and garlic? :)

[kyrie]

I've always been overweight by 15 to 20 pounds, and gained a bit more in college-- we had a scrumptious all-you-can-eat buffet in our dining hall, and my tastes generally ran towards high carb stuff. One night I remember eating mashed potatoes, potato soup, and tater tots. I didn't even realize that those were the choices I'd made until I got to my table.

Then, five years ago, I went vegetarian. Ovo-lacto, but I generally ate low-fat, high-carb. I gained about 40-50 pounds on that, and was starting to have serious problems with my blood sugar.

[madpiano]

Hi Levi

I am not sure if you are still around. I am a german living in the UK, and my parents went a couple of times on holiday to the US. I know where your question is coming from. Yes, there are big people in germany. But there isn't many peple which are over 300lbs and (like they showed on the telly yesterday) I don't think there is anyone weighing 850lbs.

How does it happen ? Well for starters, even procesed food in germany does not contain an awful lot of sugar or starch. Germans eat a lot of meat, cold cuts are everywhere and there is no fillers in meatproducts. For example sausages. The contents read just like many sausages here, as they contain meat, nitrate and several sugars (mainly dextrose). But a german sausage has 0.2g/carbs per 100g, an english sausage has 7g carbs/100g ! So the amount of sugars are very different.

My parents went to the US a couple of times and they are still struggling to find edible bread. Itmay be their poor english, but my dad said they tried about 10 different brands andthey all have so much sugar in them, they taste like that italian/french sweet bread which is served for breakfast. He said bacon is the same. If you are used to it, you probably don't notice it, but my parent generally don't eat white bread and they really noticed it. They also said that portion sizes are way bigger over there. And the Softdrinks were a lot sweeter, up to the point of being undrinkable.

Another thing is the attitude to food and cooking over in Germany. I don't know many germans who live of ready meals. They call it a ready-meal, if it was pre-cooked and frozen by mum..... In our family we never had ready meals. My mum cooked every day. Crisps in germany don't come in handy snack packs of 28g, they come in big bags, as they are not a snack food as such, they are party bags. We don't eat them every day. Allthough a lot of people in germany eat cakes and danish pastry, hardly any of the cakes and pastry they buy is industrial made (with all the extra sugars and other additives), they are bought hand made from a local bakery. Beer is "clean", no additives. Mc Donald's is "kids Food". Not many grown-ups eat there (unless dragged in by their kids), and Salad has been available at McD's for years in Germany.

Last but not least, a lot of people in germany walk, cycle, swim, ski, play sports etc.

I think the main thing really why people do become more addicted to sugar and starch in te UK and US is the amount of sugar and starch in day-to-day food and the culture of eating ready-meals/on-the-go-food. The TV Schedule can't be the problem, as germany basically has american TV dubbed into german. And maybe the availability as well. In germany you can only buy stuff until 6 or 7pm, not 24/7. Adverts are less, different culture, better food....

Maybe a good idea would be to go on holiday to the US. Then you can see for yourself.

And the whole thing about this being an offensive question, I don't think so. Just curious I suppose. But maybe that's a german thing.....

[rachelratz]

The processed sugars has a lot to do with awful damage that is in high carb foods. I have a Russian co-worker who was amazed how "large" people were in he US. She was also amazed with the large amount of food in she saw in servings in resturants. There are heavy people of course outside the US. I was thnking of Italy and the heavy daily diet of pasta (processed food or not) the poor people of Italy and even France (there diet is supposed to be so good and they have the longest life span in Europe), have remained fat._Starchy foods are good for you, they serve a purpose to produce a layer of fat on people to protect them. The damage starts when you eat too much of it. Yes all those baked goodies, cakes, sweets will do the same. The trick is to consider them an occasional treat, not a daily consumption. I am skinny, now people look and me think I have a eating disorder, I don't care. I will NEVER go back to the way I ate before. I went shopping today for spring and came back with size 4 and 2's. (and I felft darn good!)

[bacon]

I agree with rachel, who noted that the real danger in all these foods is eating too much of them. I try my best to eat my favorite foods, soda, snacks in moderation- or as a "treat" when I feel myself creeping up on the scale. Moderation is the key!

[ChristaS]

I don't know how it is in other countries, but, at least in my family, food is how we "celebrate" everything. Baby showers, bridal showers, holidays, picnics, even funerals! I know that most of my eating is emotional too. A tough day at work has me reaching extra far for that ice cream. Another problem seems to be portion sizes in restaurants. I've been to several islands in the French West Indies and West Indies and their portion sizes are similar to what I would serve myself at home (although smaller portions of rice or pasta). In the States, they actually serve a meal on a platter in most restaurants. This mentality has surely led to a lot of super-sized people.

For me, personally, I gained weight on a low fat diet. Once the low-fat craze hit, I dove in and managed to gain 30 lbs., in spite of exercise. I also grew up watching my mom diet on cottage cheese and salads. In 7th grade, after weighing in at 135 in front of all the girls, I decided I was fat. I started dieting then and haven't stopped. Although LC is a way of life for me, it still takes a conscious effort to keep on track.

I think Levi may be thinking along the lines of how some people can "allow" themselves to get so heavy. I decided to take control at 226 lbs. and sometimes I feel like the finish line is too far away. I can't imagine how great it must feel for those who've lost 100+ lbs. and are still in for the long haul. I hope they're as proud of themselves as I am envious of them (in a good way)!

We do tend to assume that skinny people have such great body images, but all of the skinny people I know still think they're fat or have to work really hard to maintain their weight. I'd rather be "curvy/healthy" and happy with myself than skinny and miserable.

Just my two cents...

[rachelratz]

ChristaS

If you stick to this you will be on the other end. I never imagine I would ever be thin. During the periods when I would "stall" on the Atkins diet after dropping several pounds, I would grit my teeth, think how I would look in a tiny swimsuit and stick to the diet (I never cheated, even once) It was awful to be without starches....but darn it...it was worth it. I'm thin and happy. I still have curves, my husband measured me after I hit 114lbs. I was 36-22-36. I hit the gym the same time I started Atkins. The only bad thing is that being thin ages you in the face. You look older. Fat people (to me anyway) look very pretty in the face. Plumpness flatters the face. My two cents worth it that you and everyone else gets to their goal and be happy about the results!

[Masaki]

I agree with what many have said about fat attitudes being the cause of fat people. We use food as a means of celebration, a crutch in sad times, and many other things besides sustenance. There is a great chapter in DANDR dedicated to this theme. I was raised by my mother alone, who took care of us four kids on about $100 a week in food stamps. That's obviously not going to put steak on the table every night. So, I was essentially raised on junk food. I, like everyone probably, had (have? :$) a little bit of a dysfunctional family, and eating was one of our many bad coping mechanisms. The state of the country also has a lot to do with it.

As someone mentioned, the state of dental health is very advanced in the U.S. due to a preoccupation with teeth, advanced medicine, fluoride and other dental health standards that the gov't and private industry put in place many years ago (although I live in an extremely primitive state, Hawaii, where the local [mentally] mudhut people fear fluoride, so it's not in their water decades after the fact. The result is lots of nasty teeth!)

Secondly, there is the predominance of fat people. I have lived in Japan before, so I KNOW what a place where basically everyone is thin looks like. The U.S. is an absolute shock for my Japanese friends who come here, as it was for me coming back. So, too, are the portion sizes. Our meals for 1 would feed a family over there. But I have to agree on the obesity/exercise addicts thing. Pretty much nobody in Japan exercises outside of professional athletes and gyms are few and far between. However, there is an absolutely crazy multi-billion dollar industry of exercise, weight machines, aerobics, gyms, clubs, weight loss programs, pills etc in the U.S. and yet there are so many fat people? I don't get it. (I mean, okay, I do. Fat people buy the stuff in the hope of getting thin, and then don't use it. Then they buy the next one they see at 3am on TV. I know this because I am one of them. If I had any money I would have already bought so much, but I have more sense than that.)

So my personal upbringing, national attitudes, my environment all contributed to making me a 316 pound lardass. It was gradual and I just slipped. That one day when I saw it on the scale, I turned my life around and started eating right. Sure, there are people who were and are a whole lot bigger than me, even two or three times as heavy, but to me, I was the fattest thing on the planet. My self-esteem and confidence were non-existant. I fully believe the advice of Dr. Atkins in DANDR chapter 21: weight, weight gain and weight loss are incredibly psychological. Many complex issues have to be dealt with before most people can lose weight, be comfortable with themselves, love themselves and be free to grow. In a society that rams ideal images of sex and beauty down our throats from birth, overweight people, who are excluded from such activity and jided by their peers, can and often do develop painful psychological trauma and scarring for life.

Do I need to go on?

We each accept responsibility for our own weight, of course, but there are many factors that go into it. (Even though I will never understand the bloated, well-fed-looking homeless ...:S) Just my two cents.

ChristaS: I totally understand! My girlfriend is just over 110lbs and says she is so fat that she worries I might leave her. This, coming from someone who has been 95lbs, and even now is less than 1/3 of my high weight and less than half of me now sounds absurd, but it's the way she feels. Many beautiful and thin women (early 20's) I know feel the same discomfort with their bodies. Go figure. It's culture, I guess.

[rachelratz]

I think people should know that in many place in the world, fat people are poor and rich people are thin. That is the way it is. Poor people must depend on a diet of starch. I was thinking of native americans and Mexicans (with their corn based diet) and homeless people. Thin people (at least in the U.S.) can afford a variety of food and excercise (which is a luxury to poor people) The high cost of gyms have closed the door on poor people. :(

[corianin]

I have to disagree with you Rachel.. I live in subsidized housing. Our family of 4 makes less than $30,000/year and we eat very healthy and exercise 6 days/week. Going to the beach to swim - free... Taking your kids for a walk in a garage sale stroller each summer night - free going to the state parks to hike - free. My mother was a single parent and she made sure that I was able to do things, so we found very low cost ways to exercise and have fun. People equate low income with low intelligence or low motivation which I do see a lot of in my neighborhood. But that's a generalization of a group of people and not a good habit to get into. Eggs are cheaper than meat, chicken (some places) is cheaper than beef. I can bargain shop and feed my entire family for $120 for 2 weeks. That includes fruits, vegetables, whole milk, cheeses. My kids snack on dried fruit and nuts, SF jello, apples w/PB, and other healthy foods. We "exercise" with the kids at least 3 times a week. Sometimes it's dancing around the house, playing tag... etc, etc. Kids need to learn good healthy habits early or they'll end up... like me :) And to respond to this thread the weight doesn't just suddenly appear one day. You don't wake up and go "OMG! I weight 220!" it creeps on and you hardly notice it. I realized I was overweight but never used a scale much or even put much thought into what went into my mouth except when it was time to eat and I found something that sounded good. Americans are very busy, we don't have time to sit and think about nutrition. I have 8 hours of work, pick up the kids, get them to their sport activities, any errands that needed to be done, cook supper, pick up the house, give the kids a bath, eat at some point in there. Women also tend to think of others before themselves. They think about everyone else getting the right foods and making sure everyone else is taken care of, then dont' take care of themselves. Women also use food as an emotional comfort. We eat when we're not hungry, we eat when we're sad, eat when we're angry... Whatever the trigger is. I think that obesity in the US can stem from genetic predisposition, but I would say that 90% is external factors that lead to not only overeating but un-nutritious eating. US commercial markets push unhealthy foods. Why? Because it's cheap to produce, easy to market, and it tastes good... Supersize this for only 39 cents... Add an apple pie for ONLY $1.00. It's very easy to market high sugar foods in the US. And it just keeps going up and up. That's why I'm glad to see the Atkin's fad coming into the commercial market. Maybe it will take some of the light away from teh high sugar foods and give people other options for eating. I hope so! K, I'm done now :) Thanks for listenin' to my babble

~ Cori ~

[momoffour]

I was also slim as a child and teenager. I would have to say I started gaining weight when I had my 4 children. I am 5 10" and I was probably about 135 pounds before the kids came, after the first I kept a few pounds and with each aditional one same thing, and being tall well it took me awhile to notice how fat I really was. Even now at 225 I wear a size 16. I guess there is more of me to stretch the fat out.lol

[LondonIan]

re: how did you become SO obese?
Practise.

[corianin]

LOL~Ian.... Same here... Lots of hard work and determination. You think getting fat like this is easy???? :D :D


~ Cori ~

[sherbear]

I don't find it offensive either. I weighed 145 - 150 almost all of my life amd wore a size 10. I got married 6 years ago weighing 165 and wearing a 12 or 14. I have always been solid and never felt overweight. In the last 6 years the weight has piled on, and I have gained 135 pounds. I'm not sure why, maybe because my perfect health/weight Husband loves to eat, anything and everything. I changed jobs, got older, less active. What I do know is that it is extremely difficult to get rid of. I am noslob either........ I work hard at my job, my house is spotless, I swim all summer (as much as you can living in OHIO! LOL. Just some thoughts............

[watcher16]

~Corianin

Very good post! I admire you.

:roll: :thup:

[dessertmom]

I ask myself the exact question all the time (only not as kindly as you did!)
1.Lack of exercise.
2.Constant eating.To much eating.Wrong eating.Never feeling satisfied with what I have eaten...not the how much but the what.....always wanting something that is nicer....something nice.....
3.Dieting more often than not.Falling of diet with a binge and gaining more than I lost.Repeat.......Repeat.....Repeat.
4.Obsess about weight all the time.... I mean all the time....first thing in the morning I think of.Last thing I worry about......
I always wonder how it is that I am the only fat person in this place with these spesific problems..it seems all the other people is overweight without eating to much..or to wrong or being as immobile than me ect ect ect...
Now please dont be offended.It is just nice to be honest sometimes isnt it?
Dessertmom

[Judynyc]

hmmmm...dessertmom....you've got me thinking here cause I'm new here and I don't want to start any arguments.
I joined the TDC today and there are people in there who, like myself, know exactly why they/I'm at the weight I'm at today.
So I do not think you are the only fat person here who tells the truth!!

This is a very painful subject and not one to be taken lightly. This thread is long and I'm sure hot with a lot of emotion but I don't have the time to read through the whole thing.

We come here to heal and gain health. To have a person question why we are the way we are is to me, an insult to my intelligence. He knows why and shame on him for asking people to publicly name the thing in life that shames us.

I am very sorry to see this thread here. I did not expect to find this sort of imflammatory subject matter on this site. :(

[gilibel]

Hello Judy and welcome to this forum. :wave:

No, you would normally not see this kind of topic, but this is the "war zone" especially created for controversial subjects. On all the other subforums we all focus on supporting eachothers WOE:s (way of eatings). :) The originator of this thread left the forum about two years ago (it's a very old thread) and his original question - although extremely controversially and clumsily articulated - wasn't really about individuals, but rather a question on cultural habitual differences. Still, at the time very badly phrased and the topic of many strong feelings afterwards. In any case, it partly developed into a positive thread for those who felt it was interesting to search deeper into certain life-mechanisms etc - hence it's presence here now.

Again, lowcarber is a very friendly place, full of support. :)
You will like it here, I'm sure.

hugs & cheers,
/gil

[laurieR]

For me the reason for being overweight is that I quit smoking and drinking at the same time and instead ate alot of candy bars to get me through. The next thing I knew I had grown out of all my clothes and weighed in at 200 lbs. I also grew up in a divorced family where my mom had to work during the day so I was home alone and had to make my own meals so my mom bought me alot of easy convenience food in a box or microwave meals. So I have never been a thin person and everything else on top of it got me where I am now. As for the German's, my step mom is German and eats everything in sight and is a small little bean pole who looks like she never eats a thing. I don't know what the difference is but there has got to be something. IMHO, Laurie

[Smiley0202]

While I am not an expert, I know enough about the U.S. society to declare there are many reasons for the obesity problem in our country. One thing I recently concluded, however, is that money probably plays a big role in this epidemic. I never thought of this before, and in fact always wondered how poverty stricken people could also be overweight. Afterall, if you are short on cash, shouldn't it show through things like, malnourishment/being underweight? I never understood this until recently, following a brief visit to McDonald's.

You see, I am a 25 year old female living on my own without anyone's help at all for the first time in my life. Up until recently I hadn't eaten fast food since gradeschool. My reasons for not eating fastfood were #1, I knew of the health hazards involved in eating fast food, and #2, I was also petrified of gaining weight. So I avoided fast food places for a very long time. A few months ago, however, I was short on cash and needed to find the cheapest food possible. "what the heck," I thought. "One time won't hurt me." So I ventured towards the big yellow M that showed like starlight in the night sky. I ordered the exact same thing I remember getting as a kid: "One hamburger and one small fries." I waited on the edge of my seat to see what the price would be. Needless to say, I was floored. My entire meal only cost between 2 and 3 dollars. I couldn't believe it. I've bought fruit that was more expesive than that!!

So my point is this: there are many reasons why our society has a problem with weight, and it goes far deeper than one's genetics, or one's propensity toward numbing feelings through food. When there is a problem so large that it encompasses the vast majority of Americans, you know there is more than one factor playing a part in its perpetuance.

[rachelratz]

I totally agree with you. Money (or lack of it) does play a role. Its not just fast food. Many poor families can't afford the variety of good food. They depend on starch to stave off hunger and feed large families. I can't tell you how many people I know that are working poor or on welfare that are very heavy. I can recall cruel jokes ("don't know why they are on the dole, they look well fed to me") There are other countires that are poor and have diets based on corn (Mexico) is big example. You can be poorly fed and be very heavy. I still think that wealthy people are thin and (toned) because of their expensive gyms in additon to good quality food.. The look as long as there has been a Hollywood is being thin...the only way to look great in this world. There are many factors in being fat, but lack of money is one of them.

[3shewolf8]

Come on!! He asked us a good question..how did we get so fat, not why Americans are so fat. I don't care how he asked it, I am not ashamed that I was very fat, I fit into the obese catagory, and even now, my doctor wants me to loose 10 more pounds!! I feel better now than I have in years, and I was not raised a poor child, or a poor adult for that matter. I just made bad choices in my way of eating. I was raised with the "clean your plate and drink that 16 ounce glass of full fat milk or you can't leave the table" rules. But after I grew up, I take full responsibility for my weight gain. I got married and ate, was working so I ate and watched T.V., and slept, that's about it. My husband is very overweight now, and I am tired of arguing with him to loose weight for his health,,you know the old saying that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink?? Well that's how it is with him. I buy the healthy stuff, and he runs to the store for junk. I am not arguing anymore, if he wants to kill himself, then so be it. He is jealous of the looks I get from other men now, but oh well, he just needs to get over it because I won't ever make the mistake of getting fat again!!

[Nibby]

I have to agree with several people here that talked about money being a factor in fat. We grew up without a whole lot and food was ALWAYS padded with bread, potatos, noodles etc because honestly meat and lots of fruit were a luxury for us in the simple fact that they cost alot more. My mom was a great cook but when even cheese is a luxury item noodles and potatos are a economical way to feed the kids. After growing up we had LOW FAT pounded into our heads so who could figure out that fat free potato was actually hurting me when everyone else said it wouldn't?
Of course now days there is so much information if kids and adults make poor food choices it is just that...a choice unless that 25 cent brick of Ramen is much more in your price range than 2 dollar a pound asparagus for example.
I have honestly never spent as much on groceries as I do since I am low carbing and its a balancing act with the other bills some days I'll tell you.
Simple facts? Eating healthy is expensive. I don't regret one good thing I eat though because the results speak for themselves but I wanted to make the observation from my life.
Nibby

[TitianWasp]

I think you guys are right about the money thing, being at least a partial factor in weight - heavy or thin. The new mothers playgroup to which I belong has, out of 8 of us (all with babies under a year and a half old) 2 size 0's, 2 size 2's and the rest are 4's to 8's. There is not a woman in the group who "needs" to lose weight, but we are all ultra-conscious of it anyway, and not a get-together occurs where discussion of diet and exercise doesn't come up. In terms of money, it's not that people are spending so much on personal trainers or organic food, but rather that the peergroup is hyper-focused on the topic itself. I don't think it's the spending (or not spending) of money that makes a person thin or fat. I do think that the cultural habits and pressures to which they respond are very big contributors. Does that make sense?

[rachelratz]

Yay!!! At least one person agrees with me. There were six of the us (4 children a year apart) and two adults. We had potatos every night of the week. For variety we threw in pasta. We grew into very pudgy kids and heavy adults. Get real people, generations of native americans are obese and poorly fed because of a diet of starch (killer corn) just for starters. I always thought the ultimate symbol of being thin and rich is Nancy Reagen! That women is a walking cadaver with all that wealth.

[Carina8]

I'm obease for several reasons.
1st. I was taught that potatoes are the best food for me, so I at alot of them.
2nd. I used to eat emotionally
3rd. In EVERY gasstation, restruant, grocery store, convience store (even some department stores) on the way out the door there is candy, junkfood, chips, crap!
4th. fast food is cheap, fast and easy
5th. I didn't know what a balanced meal plan was until Atkins.

I think this was a great question. I wish more American's were asking this question, maybe it'd prevent them from getting in my shoes (or helping them lose).

Besides not having junk at every cash register, Europeans live different lifestyles. They have smaller fridges and kitches. They have to go to grocery stores more often. Which involves (for most) a walk to the store, bus stop, or wherever) and back. We shop once a month at Costo, they shop 2 time a week and walk alot. Public transportation is huge there.. sucks here.
American's usually don't excerise because they don't have to, or they do exercise because they WANT to.
The european way of live forces people who want to do anything to at least walk 60 yards for each thing they do.

Carina

[MsTwacky]

I got fat as a child...I later lost the weight.
Eventually I turned to drugs and thought that it would help me get thinner. Eventually I had a really bad drug habit that messed up my metabolism. Even though I hardly ate I gained a hugh amount of weight. Then when I quit getting high I gained even more weight. Little by little through low carbing and exercise it is coming off. But it hasn't been easy for me...I also have PCOS and my body goes into starvation mode very easily from my drug induced starvations.

[yoda_san]

I think I am different than a lot of people. It isn't really sweets that I consumed too heavily on although I did have a fondness for chocolate chip cookies. It was what I always thought of as "real foods", like mashed potatoes, macaroni and cheese, biscuits and gravy, and pizza. And the worst of the bunch I am almost afraid to admit, but it was mostly from my bachelor life, hamburger helper, and I would sit there and eat almost the whole pan. I swear, to think back on it, you probably would not be able to measure the number of carbs I was taking in with a conventional number system.

But I'm doing much better now.... :p

[JACO1974]

I think a lot of Americans are in denial about their obesity (me being one of them). Portions are big so we blame it on restaurants, all are friends are big so its seems the norm, manufacturers make bigger sized clothes to accomodate us.

Although its not acceptable and its been proven that thin people do better in life most Americans are still overweight. Why you ask? Well I really think it boils down to a social taboo? I would never ever tell my girl friend shes getting a little chunky. She would never tell her best friend that she is packing on the pounds. Its taboo to tell some one they are overweight. Its socially the rudest form of criticism. The only way many people realize they are overweight is by seeing those god awful pictures of themselves or eventually losing the weight, then exclaiming, "man was I fat"!!

Jason

[watcher16]

There is a problem with 'normal' size, if one compares to the average (American) person, one compare with an already much overweight average person. So the problem is ' bigger' than realised by most Americans.

Another problem is with the concepts 'food' and 'restaurant'. Food is not what you get in most 'restaurants'. They feed junk to the nation. Food is not the ready meal from the shops. That is mostly junk. Food is not the hamburger or the french fries. That is poison.

Label these things different, and people may start looking for real food.

[TammiBelle]

Hi Levi,
I think what you're asking for is a sociological cultural study which I don't know if you'll get here from people's opinions ... but still I would like to throw in my two cents (or, since I now live in Switzerland, two ruppen.)

I grew up in the States and moved to Switzerland 3 years ago. By the way, don't try and learn German here, isch noed eifach, ha ha! I could also go on and on about that subject. So, back to the original topic. I also asked myself, after walking down the Bahnhofstrasse and rarely seeing anyone I wouldn't call very thin, why there's such a problem with obesity in America. I thought about the differences between these two Western cultures and also looked within my own family. My mother is Asian and my father is American (by definition a European hybrid) and the two have very different eating habits.

The cultural differences I observed are many. First, even in small towns and especially in big cities, people tend to live in urban sprawl or suburbia. This means that the pleasant town centers of villages or city centers with many shops that are a pleasure to walk around in don't exist. Instead we have strip malls and tremendous shopping centers which have an artificial feeling to them and are not aesthetically pleasing. Have you ever visited an American suburb? Sometimes they have a "movie set" feeling to them, with identical houses made of the same material, perfectly groomed lawns, spaced evenly, with trees all at the same height. I find going for a walk in a mall or in a suburb far less interesting than walking in downtown Zuerich or among the 300 year old houses and cobblestone streets of a Swiss village.

Next, I compare walking in a Swiss supermarket to walking in an American supermarket. In a Swiss supermarket you typically find fresh vegetables and fruits, fresh bread, meat, and some snacks. In an American supermarket, try walking down the chips and snacks aisle. First of all, it's a kilometer long, and second, there are dozens and dozens of products. These products all contain artificial flavoring. So Americans have much more access to the products that contribute to their weight, in addition to more fast food choices as you mentioned.

Politics ... America is not a social democracy. It's a capitalist country. I would blame capitalism for this enormous offering of high fat convenience foods. There is not so much concern for the health of the consumer as for making a profit.

If you come from a state in America that doesn't have mountains or isn't along the coast, you have less options for doing things outside. I'm just thinking of where I come from, compared with my daily view of the Alps as I walk to work. It's very flat and there are no lakes. There weren't many pleasurable things to do outside. So a lot of people exercise in gyms, another artificial environment. My feeling is that it's much harder to stay motivated to go run on the treadmill than to go for a run by a huge, clear lake, past people sitting on blankets and enjoying the sun and people playing the saxophone as the sun sets.

Looking at history, America is built on a mix of immigrants from all over the world. Many of these people were poorer and looking for a better life. Their food was far simpler, and probably more fattening than those from higher classes in Europe and elsewhere. The life in America was a hard one often involving farming the land, initially. The meat and potatoes diet of these people was probably heavy, but they needed the energy. So this is how people's eating habits developed. America has never known famine, or disease that wiped out millions, etc ... only prosperity.

This is getting long, so about my parents' eating habits ... my mother's diet is more based on vegetables, rice, and a little meat. She doesn't eat a lot of dairy products. My father's is more like the traditional food pyramid. My mom never had a problem with weight her whole life and now, at age 54, weighs about 3 kilos (6-7 pounds) less than me. I think her eating habits (since mainly she cooked, not my dad, are now my eating habits too) were closer to Atkins diet, so I still have them and they help me to control my weight.

So all of this adds up to weight problems for Americans, and it doesn't mean that they are weak or entirely responsible for them. There are many many other factors. In my opinion, it's hard for you to compare Germans to Americans because they are living with an entirely different upbringing and influences. This is only my opinion and includes lots of generalizations but maybe it helps to shed some light ... And, I would recommend that you go to America, look around and find out for yourself!

Thanks for readin', if you made it this far,

Tschüss,
Tamara

[Smiley0202]

Something further to add is this:

Even if anyone is offended, so what? Afterall, usually when someone is offended by something it is because it strikes a chord with them for one reason or another, and what is so terrible about that? You can learn a thing or two about yourself, about others, and about life when you have your chords striked once and awhile. I can't stand when people try and control conversations by saying, "oh tsk tsk... that offends me. STop talking about that right now." I think instead of getting angry over being offended by something, you should ask yourself why it offends you in the first place, and then go from there.

[watcher16]

Hi Levi,
I think what you're asking for is a sociological cultural study which I don't know if you'll get here from people's opinions ... but still I would like to throw in my two cents (or, since I now live in Switzerland, two ruppen.)
...
Thanks for readin', if you made it this far,

Tschüss,
Tamara

While not being Levi: Thanks for writing such an interesting and observing post, Tamara! :)

[EnufIsEnuf]

Applauds Okwoer and Shark01.

It's not the question, it's how it was phrased.

[NadiaA]

Hi everyone

I think that one of the reasons could have to do with life style. I know that our European cousins have a far more active lifestyle. Which I think is about 50% of the fat problem. If you excercise you can get away with eating more food. I live in Sydney Australia, apparently we have the 2nd worse obesity problem in the world. I live in a beach side suburb and it is very rare to see a obese person. The poorer suburbs seems to have a much larger problem. All of my friends have an active life style of surfing, swimming, snowboarding, tennis etc, etc.

My Swiss and German friends are also very active they ski and snowboard for a large part of the year, in the summer they ride their bikes everywhere and they bushwalk a lot too. It is engrained in the culture.

When you live in a big city and did not grow up playing sport and being active then obviously you are at a much higher risk of learning bad habits young.

Sitting in front of the TV and playing computers and working 12+ hours a day does not leave much time to look after yourself.

Nadia

ps by the way I'm fat from eating as a way of dealing with my stressful lifestyle. I have to address the emotional triggers that lead me to eat the wrong stuff to feel better. I also work very long hours so miss out on the social excercising I did so much as a teenager. Working my way through full time university with a full time job meant that I could not look after my self very well, now I am paying the price. Our government needs to support univeristy students better so that they drown in debt.

[Sasha99]

I'm sure Levi didn't mean to offend. He asks a very legitimate question, one I ask myself often. Not why are people overweight in general, but how did YOU get to be overweight enough that you are trying to lose it and, in fact, have sought out a bulletin board on which to discuss the subject? "Obese" is kind of a loaded word, but isn't that why we're here? If we only had five or ten pounds to lose, would we bother with all of this stuff?

For myself, I was skinny all my life until I hit about 30. I mean reed thin. I have a belt that I wore then that is exactly the size of my thigh now. :o

In my childhood home, food was not a big deal. My mother tended to cook the same things over and over again, not very well. We did not keep candy around, or cookies, or sodas. (I'm an only child.) My mother never baked cakes, cookies, pies-- never had a birthday cake. If there were cookies, I'd have a couple and that was all. Or one Coke. It never occurred to me to overeat. My mother cooked breakfast for me virtually every day of my school life, through college. Usually it was eggs and something. So I didn't overeat at school. Back then (in the 50's and 60's) there was NO junk food at school. No fries, potato chips, sodas, or candy. Dessert might be jello or pudding-- no pie, cakes, cookies. I attended several different grade schools and two high schools. You absolutely could NOT buy any candy or sodas or anything like that at school. In the eighth grade (1961) I transferred to an urban Catholic school and was astounded that the kids could leave the school grounds during lunch and go to a neighborhood grocery store and buy candy. If they had been buying heroin at lunch, I couldn't have been more shocked.

Also, back then, kids WANTED to be outside playing whenever they could (at least me and my friends were like that). It was a punishment to stay in the house! There wasn't all that much tv, and anyway my parents severely limited my tv watching. No computer, no video games, no phone in my room-- why stay in?

In college, I ate my cooked breakfast and then never thought about food at school. I remember that sometimes I would have a bowl of green been salad from the school cafeteria and a Dr. Pepper with lemon in it. Food was just never important to me. Through college, I probably weighed 120. (Height 5'6".) I never did sports or anything-- not athletic at all.

After I got married (the first time) in 1971, I got a job in a bakery (my husband and I had the fantasy of opening our own bakery). I BALLOONED up to the weight of 136-- a weight that I would KILL to see today! :lol:

I stayed at around 140 until about 1980, then went through a long period when I was single, unhappy, lonely... and started to drink heavily. I sat home most nights and drank a bottle of wine or more by myself... with snacks. That went on for about eight or nine years, and THAT'S when I got within spitting distance of 200.

Some other stresses and traumas over the next 20 years didn't help... eating for comfort, recreation, out of boredom, for pleasure, yadda, yadda, yadda...

Been trying to lose it ever since... don't drink anymore. The low carb thing makes sense to me. I hope that skinny girl is still in there. I'd like her to come out while there's still time for her to have a little fun. I don't want to be the skinny old lady in the nursing home! ;)

[TammiBelle]

Thanks, watcher16. Just saw the documentary "Supersize Me" where Morgan Spurlock eats nothing but McDonald's for all his meals for a month. It was good, funny, and also scary. I decided I'm never going to McDonald's again. Burger King is alright though. :)

[Beeblebrox]

This is my first post and my first day in this forum. Thank you to everyone who answered the initial question... While reading your posts, I think I had a small revelation about my own weight gain. It is a difficult question for me, because I believe there are so many factors contributing to my obesity, like: a constant struggle with depression, emotional eating, a genetic tendency in my family for woman to be "bottom heavy", insulin resistance, sedentary lifestyle, and over-eating. I have never been on a low-fat diet, and I don't buy low-fat products, so that ain't it!

I had never really thought about my past weigh history in detail, but it breaks out something like this:

Childhood to High School: up to 110 pounds.
Much of diet consisted of baked potatoes, ramen noodles, cereal, peanut butter and jelly and Dr. Pepper.

College: up to 135 pounds.
Went across country to college. Very stressful. Complete diet change with the cafeteria food. Instead of "freshman 15", I gained the freshman 25.

Post College- next TWO years: up to 180 pounds
Moved to big city, had a horrible stressful job in the legal field. Work environment was awful... a true rat race. First time living on my own.

Post College- THIRD YEAR: up to 235 pounds
Went to law school briefly. Hated it. Dropped out. Very depressed!

Post College- Fourth year: up to 200 pounds
Moved to another state. Got another job in legal field.

For the years after that, my weight bounced around a bit, but now I am up to 250. (And I am still doing the same type of job that I hate.)

My first big jump up in weight, immediately post-college, occurred at a time when I had a very ugly job that made me miserable, and at the time when I first lived on my own, and essentially could eat whatever I wanted, without relying on parents or a school cafeteria. But going to law school was the worst time period in my life, and I was severly depressed and unhappy. So there is something to be learned from this, and I will have to cogitate on it for a while.

Anyhoo... Thanks for making me think!

[motherofth]

Oh, you don't want to flame anybody huh :mad:

Thread titles like this show your ignorance and bigotry very clearly :thdown:

I don't go around public forums asking why you are SO stupid do I :rolleyes:

Why don't you go spend some more quality time in front of a mirror Zoolander :wave:

oh that was too funny :lol: ! zoolander :lol: !

[platypusd]

i too think levi has asked a good question, one that i have asked myself on occasion. it is not insulting in the least - on a board such as this (if he posed such a query out of the blue on a subway or at a cocktail party i might slug him, but that's just me ;)

so, how did my weight get to the 280 mark (i am female, 5'10"):

* i was 200lbs by the 4th grade, all of the women on my mother's side of the family have weight problems
* my childhood diet was high in crap (high fat & carb junk & convenience foods), my activity level decreased as my weight increased
* my family was dysfunctional to say the least, i used food for comfort and escape - i admit it, i use food as a cure for sadness, anxiety, depression. i use food to celebrate the good times. i eat when i am bored, sad, happy and every emotion in between.
* in the 9th grade i decided that being fat was not fun (and not good for the social life) by this point i weighed 260 lbs. i went on a medically supervised, low calorie diet and got down to 180 lbs.
* i plateaued at 180 lbs. got tired of paying buckets of cash without the weight loss. i left the medically supervised diet clinic and modified the diet (as only a vegan teenagerl obsessed with her weight would)
* the modified diet consisted of the following: 1 grapefruit, 1 crisp bread and 1 cup of veggies a day. in addition i did 1-2 hours of cardio a day and 1 hour of weight training every other day. following this regime for a while got my weight to 160lbs. i was happy (my hair fell out and i started passing out when i stood up - but i was thin)
* so i continued this regeime throughout high school during the week (binging on the weekends on crap and alcohol). i took up smoking. added other foods, taking them away if i noticed weight gain.
* this worked nicely until my second year of university when i was diagnosed with thyroid cancer. my thryoid was removed. i had to go off my supplement for scanning and radiation treatments. i could not maintain my lunatic eating habits and exercise schedule. i was depressed. i ate more and gained weight in addition to the 20 lbs the doctors anticipated.
* i stayed between 180 - 220 through law school and my first couple of jobs (which were not overly stressful or time intensive). i ate "normally" (high fat, high carb, crap), exercised regularly and was generally okay (going on calorie restricted diets from time to time when things got too out of hand, often supplemented by weight loss drugs).
* but the weight snuck up. i started working in a job that required more time, that involved eating restaurant meals on a daily basis and that i was not particularily happy at. i didn't like the way the weight loss drugs made me feel and went to a variety of nutritionists, naturopaths and fitness consultants who were fans of the 'balanced' diet approach. i did what they said. i lost very little (or gained), felt very deprived (i will not live a life that does not permit me to put salad dressing on my salad or butter on my veggies) and returned to my crappy eating habits and inactive lifestyle.
* so i returned to the medically supervised low calorie diet of my youth. lost 80lbs and was feeling pretty good. my cancer recurred. off my medication i went. off the diet i went. i gained some weight. started eating crap again. gained 40lbs.
* tried low calorie "balanced" diet on my own. gained 10lbs. stopped caring.

Last week a co-worker suggested atkins. I bought the book. Saw alot of myself in the book (i am a carb addict, the low calorie diets that have worked for me have been in the 400-800 calorie range). Did some research and here I am. 6 days in, food is good and i have noticed that my desire to eat odd things (like a pound of baby carrots, a carton of ice cream, a bowl of plain white rice/pasta, honey out of the jar) has pretty much vanished. my energy levels are very high (higher than when i was taking amphetamines to lose weight, supplied by my particularly unhelpful doctor after they took fen-fen off the market).

I love myself regardless of my weight. I am beautiful regardless of my weight. I have never let my weight stop me from doing anything I want to. However, I see where obesity leads (my mother has mobility issues, type II diabetes and a host of other obesity related complaints). I need to lose weight. It is that simple.

[Karen D.]

What a refreshing attitude you have, PlatypusD! I started a low carb diet in order to control my blood sugar (I'm a type 2 diabetic), and it's done a wonderful job of that, but I've been amazed at all the other, unexpected improvements to my health that have occurred. You have already started to notice how quickly the carb cravings start to disappear - that's what amazed me the most. I will never get over seeing a homemade fruit pie, a pumpkin pie, or a glazed doughnut and wishing I could have some, but I know I can't, and I don't have any trouble resisting them. I would never have believed that possible before I started eating this way.

Good luck with your new way of life, and let us know how you're doing.

Karen D.

[dodg4kat]

Platy, your story is amazing. I feel for you, am inspired by you, and wish huge success for you on your LC program. I was not heavy as a child, was an avid athlete and stayed at about 140 lbs/16-18% BF until early 20's. I played soccer for probably 18 years through high school and college but tore ligaments in both knees that required major surgery, 2 months on crutches each time, and months of rehab after. Both surgeries put on about 20 lbs. I could no longer work out so turned to food for much of the same comfort you did. Specifically I would down a pint, sometime two of Ben and Jerrys nearly every day. At 26 I was 210 lbs. I tried to go vegetarian and started walking 45 mins a day but after six months had not lost a thing. While home for christmas my sis gave me Atkins book. I started Jan 1 and lost 60 lbs in about 4 and a half months. I could run again without feeling that the jiggle in my rear and thighs would knock me over. I kept the weight off until I met my future husband. It slowly crept back on over the first year we dated. I was 185 when we got pregnant and gained 35 lbs during the pregnancy. My son is almost 20 months now and I finally am ready to get back to the weight I was when we met and get back into the running regime. I wish you all the luck, perseverence, and happy LCing! Drop by my journal if you wish. I would love to keep track of how your success is coming.

Katie

[platypusd]

thank you dodg4kat and karen for your kind words and encouragment. :) i will keep you posted on my progress (i still need to purchase a scale, amazingly enough i have never owned one).

i slipped on the weekend (spent it with vegan friends of friends who live 'off the grid' - producing their own electricity, growing their own food...) and ate more than the 20 grams allowed on induction. it wasn't so much a slip as there were no satisfying low carb options and i was a guest (my hosts were in their 70s - i was not making any demands). Even though they were very healthy non-processed carbs (buckwheat, brown rice, legumes and fruits and veggies) what amazed me was how quickly i got hungry after these meals (i was ready to eat again in an hour or two). i got back on the induction horse the afternoon we left (lamb curry and spinach/cheese curry) and must say that low carb agrees with me. back on track and ready to rock.

happy monday

[ItsTheWooo]

Amazing post platypusd
6 days in, food is good and i have noticed that my desire to eat odd things (like a pound of baby carrots, a carton of ice cream, a bowl of plain white rice/pasta, honey out of the jar) has pretty much vanished.
You did that too? Never did the icecream thing, but I ate sugar off the spoon sometimes, a whole bag of baby carrots (I loved carrots, still do), I was addicted to rice and would eat it in a big bowl with ketchup or sometimes cheese.

[MissScruff]

Amazing post platypusd

You did that too? Never did the icecream thing, but I ate sugar off the spoon sometimes, a whole bag of baby carrots (I loved carrots, still do), I was addicted to rice and would eat it in a big bowl with ketchup or sometimes cheese.
I would smother my big bowl of rice in butter! Nothing beat a treat like that! When I began doing that I was in my 20's and weighed 102 pounds! If I only realized then the damage eating was doing to my body. Of course add in 6 pregnancies, thyroid misdiagnosis and treatment, and then steroids and prednisone in high doses for two years. It all really does add up!

[AndreaBash]

Mmmmm..... rice with butter and a little soy sauce for dinnner! I could also go through an entire bag of baby carrots in one sitting. Without fail, every time I thought I should get serious about eating better, I'd throw a couple bags of carrots into my cart instead of high fat snacks. That worked well. ;)

[Frederick]

I would smother my big bowl of rice in butter! Nothing beat a treat like that!

LOL....No way! All this time, I had thought I was the only person to have ever done that with my rice. I still remember growing up, my parents thought I was insane to pour melted butter over rice.

However, my personal favorite was drinking Hershey's Chocolate syrup straight from the carton.

[corianin]

Mine was definitely ice cream!!! Sometimes a half gallon at one sitting. I think in American society we are around so many other people with similar problems that we see what we do as the "norm" and people that work out and are conscious about their diet are either obsessed or health nuts. As if they were someone we didn't want to be. Ooooh, how we convince ourselves that we wanna be fat and lazy. I think that alot of commercial companies have been pushing all these high carb processed foods down our throats because it's easy and cheap to produce and can be sold for a huge profit. What a concept! Cheap food that gets people addicted so they wanna eat more of it. Sounds like a good money maker to me! Thank god I wised up when I did. Before they completely ruined my body. Obesity is the #1 killer of people in america. It contributes to more illnesses and disease than any other single factor. And it affects children more now than ever before. How sad to start a life with such a poor poor outlook. Hopefully we can teach our children to make better choices than we did!!!

~ Cori ~